Post/Author/DateTime	Post
KShaver 05-15-07, 10:09 AM	Did you ever make a character, only to find out later that they fit into a specific PrC like a glove? Maybe it was one that didn't even exist when you made the character, but when a new book comes out you find that between roleplaying, skills, and feats you pretty much already made the new class? This particular subject is on my mind because it did happen to me. I had made a marshall character who was a dancer as well. One of the local LG players wanted to run the Bright Sands storyline. I hadn't played LG before, but had been playing and running LotGR and MoH already. So tasked with making a desert character I decided on a marshal, only I would make and play the character more like a bard. She was after all just a dancer. Nearby was a prestigious military academy, where rich young men were molded into the leaders of tomorrow. The kind of place that a penniless orphaned half elf could never get into, but she had a plan. Every night she entertained the young men from the academy and every night she had them teach her what they were learning, heraldry, speeking, and even some weapons training. Eventually she ran off with one particular newly graduated young man, but shorty afterwards they were attacked by wild animals and he did not survive. Picking up his things she has ever since been convincing people that she is indeed a graduate of a prestigious military academy. Stat wise I was stressed as to how to spend my points. I ended up with: 12 Str 14 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 8 Wis 16 Cha Charisma being the primary stat as she is an attactive and sociable person. More in Int than I would have liked to have spent, but she is smart and skill points were going to be pushed to the limit. After that was dex, definately something she should have, so dropped the prerequisite 6 points into it. Next was con, I was starting to run out of points, but a 12 was fairly cheap and would net her the hit points of your average bard or rogue with a 14 con. Lastly was strength, with only 4 points left she got a 12. Not exactly a high enough str to be very usefull in combat, but it kept the flavor of not actually being a combat character. Next were skills, here the marshall was perfect, social skills galore, perform as a class skill, and speak language for later. At 4th level she's got 5 ranks in all synergy skills to diplomacy, max diplomacy, max dance, 1 extra language, a little bit of spot and survival, 1 rank cross classed in UMD, and a couple of skill points spent somewere else that I can't remember offhand. First set of clothes - entertainer's outfit. First item bought on an AR - MW Instrument: Castinets (I was at a loss as to if a MW instrument bonus could be gotten to boost perform:dance checks, fortunately no DM has yet argued I can't use such an appropriate instrument with the skill). Then much to my surprise I see a new PrC announced for the Complete Scoundrel, the Cloaked Dancer. I thought, it this is anything like it sounds I may actually have a PrC I can take. I look up the picture online and its almost a perfect match for my character (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/compscoundrel_gallery/102039.jpg), how much better could this get. Lastly I peruse through the stats, nice abilities and easy prereqs that I pretty much already have, a must have class for me.
kjenks 05-15-07, 10:44 AM	It happened to my Bright Lands gnome. The Nightmare Spinner (CM) prestige class would have been PERFECT for my character concept, having excellent synergy with a buffed-up horned lizard familiar. But alas, we didn't get access to that class until the character had taken another direction entirely.
Sieylianna 05-15-07, 12:31 PM	I've been looking for something like the cloaked dancer for a couple of PCs in different campaigns. Unfortunately, the class is disappointing in its execution. Ed
UMiskatonic 05-15-07, 03:04 PM	This happened to me as well. I had great plans for a bard 1/cleric 6/virtuoso 8 of Pelor, who focused on support and healing and skills, and avoided melee combat. Then the new books made virtuoso arcane only, but dropped radiant servant into my lap.
KShaver 05-15-07, 03:44 PM	I've been looking for something like the cloaked dancer for a couple of PCs in different campaigns. Unfortunately, the class is disappointing in its execution. Ed I'm picking up my copy of Complete Scoundrel this week, but just having glanced through it seems some of their abilities could be quite powerfull. Of course this is adding to a character who has no spellcasting and isn't very good at combat, so just about any direction is up.
King Kashue 05-15-07, 05:10 PM	Only with my first character... Once I started my 3rd, 4th, 11th character, not so much, since I've planned every other character out :D With 12 (I think I'm up to 12, might be 13), I don't have time to spend 5 levels wondering "hrm, what does this character feel like"...
Sieylianna 05-15-07, 06:50 PM	I'm picking up my copy of Complete Scoundrel this week, but just having glanced through it seems some of their abilities could be quite powerfull. Of course this is adding to a character who has no spellcasting and isn't very good at combat, so just about any direction is up. Their big advantage is to make a surprise attack in the midst of their dancing, but they are limited to a single melee attack and they don't get enough bonus dice to make it a threat. So a bard could take it and lose three levels of spellcasting in exchange for some abilities which aren't all that impressive in terms on what it costs. Or a rogue could take it, so they have the sneak attack dice they need to make their single attack count, but it's something they could have probably manged on their own. Ed
KShaver 05-17-07, 09:49 AM	Their big advantage is to make a surprise attack in the midst of their dancing, but they are limited to a single melee attack and they don't get enough bonus dice to make it a threat. I disagree that this is their biggest advantage. Thier real ability is short range area effect crowd control. The ability to attack while CCing is just an added benefit. So a bard could take it and lose three levels of spellcasting in exchange for some abilities which aren't all that impressive in terms on what it costs. Or a rogue could take it, so they have the sneak attack dice they need to make their single attack count, but it's something they could have probably manged on their own. Ed A pure bard or pure rogue would definately lose out on some abilities by going into the class. Since the bard already has similar abilities in their bard songs or spells, I don't see it as very usefull to them. A rogue on the other hand would be ginving up some rogue skills and general sneak attack, but would gain supernatural abilities they otherwise couldn't have. Overall it seems like a class best suited to a multi classed rogue/bard, 4/3 OR 3/4 to keep a good BAB and mix of abilities. What actually dissapoints me about the class is two things. The first item is the skill requirement of hide, this just didn't seem appropriate, and this is confirmed when you notice it isn't even a class skill for them. The second item is the poorly worded area where it describes that a person can only be affected by one dance in a 24 hour period, regardless of whether they make the save or not. The more I look at it the more it seems properly worded based on how the dances work, just not as clear as it could be. Definately still a class I want to take, I'll just have to multi-class into rogue or bard to meet the secondary skill prereqs.
KShaver 05-17-07, 09:53 AM	It happened to my Bright Lands gnome. The Nightmare Spinner (CM) prestige class would have been PERFECT for my character concept, having excellent synergy with a buffed-up horned lizard familiar. But alas, we didn't get access to that class until the character had taken another direction entirely. Thats too bad, I hope the new direction you took is at least equally fun to play.
_metz_ 05-17-07, 09:56 AM	My Rogue was always going to take Dread Pirate (From the old Sword and Fist book where I first saw it back in 3.0) And has taken a level in it - but now has discovered Scarlet Corsair and Legendary Captain. With a retraining under the belt now qualifies for both these classes, has access to the Corsair, and will sooner or later receive the legendary Captain via MetaOrg (still waiting for it to be completed) Henc was just going to be a pirate, now will become: Legendary Dread Corsair Pirate Captain Sarian!
Bold 05-17-07, 10:45 AM	Did you ever make a character, only to find out later that they fit into a specific PrC like a glove? Maybe it was one that didn't even exist when you made the character, but when a new book comes out you find that between roleplaying, skills, and feats you pretty much already made the new class? Yep, Radiant Servant. I had built a straight cleric of Pelor who focused on healing, and when Complete Divine came out I was surprised that I largely met the prereqs for that PrC, no rebuild required. That became the first PrC any of my characters took, and it was largely by accident.
Suvarov454 05-17-07, 10:44 PM	I was going to build a Fighter 4/Cleric 11 with Craft Magic Arms & Armor and lots of Craft (Armorsmith) and Craft (Weaponsmith). He wouldn't be able to craft things with a +3 enhancement bonus, but he would have the prereqs to make a Holy weapon. Then I picked up Races of Stone and found Battlesmith. Now (assuming I can get access to a dwarvencraft weapon) he'll be a Fighter 8/Cleric 3/Battlesmith 4. Sadly this means he'd need a wand or a boatload of scrolls to make a Holy weapon, which isn't likely, but he'll be able to craft a +5 Defending Bane weapon (I think I'll skip Merciful and Throwing) by 11th level. I have GOT to find access! Yeah, I know that an 11th level character can't affort the cost to craft a +5 Defending Bane weapon, but the fact that he could is got me stoked.
Lomiat 05-17-07, 11:24 PM	I think there are a lot of Loremasters out there who had a PrC fall into their lap when the Complete Divine (and Divine Oracle) was released into the campaign... and right before the CY595 rebuild, too. And then about three months later (or so it seems), Complete Adventurer came out with Insightful Reflexes... and my Divine Oracle with Prescient Sense was at 8th level, nearly on to his 9th level feat (and with a +2 DEX and a +8 INT). Yep... Like the Radiant Servant, it became the default for a lot of people's builds.
Mommy was an Orc 05-18-07, 11:24 AM	My Wood Elf Rogue Archer was going Rogue 3/Ranger 6/Fighter 2/Pious Templar 4. He's a tracker/spotter/find/disarm traps character. Started out with a 12 Wisdom and not planning to bump it - starting Dex of 17. Only loses 1 BAB throughout the build. 1st adventure I play, I get Seeker of the Misty Isle access. 2nd adventure I play, I get a +1 boost to Wisdom. Meaning, if I were a Pious Templar 4/Seeker of the Misty Isle 2, I'd get 3rd level Paladin and Travel spells. I'd still be a Ranger 4 for 1st level Ranger spells and animal companion(yes, I know it will die - still useful as a speed bump) and still get a +11 BAB by 12th for Improved Precise Shot. He also got Nightsong Enforcer access, something I considered impossible to get, because of skill point issues. However, with retraining, that's theorectical. I'd have to give up something though - and I can't give up Pious Templar 4 because that's where the open feat for Improved Initiative would come from. I don't really have to make any of these decisions until 12th, but they're interesting ones...
Prof. Pacali 05-18-07, 12:07 PM	My Sorceror got access to Mindbender, and I plan to take at least the first level of the PrC. The real trick has been getting the skill rank requirements, which I have met now that I'm 8th level. I also got access to Ruathar, and will take levels in that class. In the cae of Mindbender it fit well with my character concept of a sorceror who uses charm person and other enchantment spells. (But not always well. Mommywasanorc can tell you about how my PC got thrown off the roof by a charmed hobgoblin :) ) I wouldn't take more than one level of Mindbender in LG, because the whole idea of the class is that you sacrifice caster levels and get a permanently charmed slave to boss around. In LG the victim goes away at the end of the mod, and other PCs may not like what you're doing. But the telepathy provided by level one is quite useful, and allows me to charm an enemy whose language I don't speak, as well as other applications that will probably see Table Varianations.
Morgen 05-18-07, 12:40 PM	Spellwarped Sniper sure took its damn time exsisting. I was annoyed for months when we got the rebuild years back that there just wasn't a PrC built for rays and the like. >.<
DerekSTheRed 05-18-07, 02:56 PM	Spellwarped Sniper sure took its damn time exsisting. I was annoyed for months when we got the rebuild years back that there just wasn't a PrC built for rays and the like. >.< Spellwarped Sniper got here just in time for my character. I built a wizard who concentrated on Ray spells and flew around using swift, fly and fly. Kind of a superhero type. Then when I read the Spellwarped Sniper Prc, I knew I had to take it. I just wish I didn't have to take a level of rogue to get it. Derek
hoosierhayeslpe 05-18-07, 04:27 PM	I have a Marshal 4 / Rogue 1 / Ranger 1 / Sorcerer 1 who has almost maxed out social skills and is in spy organizations for two meta-orgs in two regions. I gained access to a whole host of 2nd and 3rd level necromancy spells, and needed a way to increase caster level to take them while starting with only a single level of sorcerer. I was looking at several levels of xp penalties and mediocre skill points by adding sorcerer levels, when suddenly Unseen Seer dropped into my lap. Skills, caster levels, and more sneak attack? I'm in love.
copper_wyrmling 05-18-07, 05:38 PM	Well, let's see... There was Wild Mage - that was perfect flavor-wise, but my PC didn't meet the skill prereqs (I honestly can't imagine any sorcerer accidentally meeting the wild mage skill prereqs). Fortunately, the 595 conversion came along at the same time that the PrC became Limited, so I could rebuild for it (at pretty much the optimal entry level) and request a special mission. Spellwarp Sniper is actually a lot closer to how I originally envisaged that character: at L6 she would've met every prerequisite except the sneak attack with no effort at all (her first two feats were Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot, and she's always been a ray specialist). By the time the class made it into the LGCS, though, she was L11 on the verge of hitting L12, so she wouldn't have been able to finish off the PrC before retirement, and the spells she's going to get in the next few levels were just too nice to give up :) I have a friend who plays a very high-Int grey elf rogue who is the best trapfinder and sneaky type I have ever met, and who took a level of diviner to get instant locksmith and some of the other nifty swift spells. My mental label for Unseen Seer is "Aznara's prestige class" - it was just so perfect for her :)
Hariman 05-25-07, 09:13 PM	My rogue/conjurer started out as a rogue wizard destined for Arcane Trickster. And then I saw spellwarp sniper and unseen seer. My little halfling (Via Reincarnate) will be going Rogue2/Conjurer5/Spellwarp Sniper5/Unseen Seer2 and I'll then choose between more levels of Unseen Seer or diving into Arcane Trickster. I'd go into Unseen Seer earlier, but those skill requirements are a killer.