Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MatteBlack 03-26-08, 10:00 AM	My 6th level Marshal just got a cohort: 4th level Snow Elf Fighter Str 14 ExWP: Elven Courtblade Dex 18 WFinesse: ECb Con 13 WFocus: Great Sword Int 10 WSpec: GS Wis 12 Power Attack Cha 6 +1 ECb, Chain Shirt and assorted gear. The Marshal (17 Cha) will be going through to 8th then who knows. Motivates Dex, Cha, Int, Damage and movement and has a few bow feats. By 8th the martial should be adding +5 or 6 to minors and +2/10ft to majors with 2 grant movements. I haven't built them to be too synergystic but, the motivate dex to initiative helps power a nice full-power attack sucker punch on occasion while the marshal helps with a number of non-combat aspects of the game and maybe plinking out a little damage with the bow. What would be the best minor aura to pick up and what direction should I take the cohort in. Since the cohort basically levels when the Marshal does, some off-balanced multiclassing could be viable. Elven Ranger is the only class access that seems like it might be of note.
MwaO 03-26-08, 10:46 AM	I think my first question would be why are you taking such a cohort? The worst cohorts are the frontline fighters who don't have some sort of gimmick going on. You've currently got an 18 AC and 32 hp. A Wizard 6 with a 14 Con, 14 Dex and Mage Armor up has a 16 AC and 31 hp. Which is to say, you're basically putting a Wizard on the frontlines at APL 6. Not to mention, unless this is a certed cohort, you need to use the elite array.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-26-08, 10:56 AM	I think my first question would be why are you taking such a cohort? The worst cohorts are the frontline fighters who don't have some sort of gimmick going on. You've currently got an 18 AC and 32 hp. A Wizard 6 with a 14 Con, 14 Dex and Mage Armor up has a 16 AC and 31 hp. Which is to say, you're basically putting a Wizard on the frontlines at APL 6. Not to mention, unless this is a certed cohort, you need to use the elite array. Well he has used the Elite Array, just with racial modifiers and 4th level bump figured in.
MwaO 03-26-08, 11:14 AM	Well he has used the Elite Array, just with racial modifiers and 4th level bump figured in. Good point. But, this is still the kind of cohort that routinely dies on the frontlines.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-26-08, 11:31 AM	Good point. But, this is still the kind of cohort that routinely dies on the frontlines. Yeah, true. Bards make for great cohorts...as far as the Marshal himself...a level of cleric and the Sacred Healing feat I've seen put to great use (Fast Healing 3 for 5-6 rounds for the whole party is some really nice out of combat healing...and even pretty nice in combat...factor in Healthful Rest spell if it's allowed and it's nothing to sneeze at).
Howie23 03-26-08, 12:12 PM	My 6th level Marshal just got a cohort: 4th level Snow Elf Fighter Str 14 ExWP: Elven Courtblade Dex 18 WFinesse: ECb Con 13 WFocus: Great Sword Int 10 WSpec: GS Wis 12 Power Attack Cha 6 +1 ECb, Chain Shirt and assorted gear. A question and then a couple of comments. Has it been clarified that cohorts can use cards, such as the Snow Elf card? Comments: WFinesse is just WFinesse, not for a particular weapon; using gives you all lights/finessables w/Dex. Unless going Exotic Wpn Master, consider Improved Racial Familiarity instead of ExWP ECb to gain lightblade and thinblade also. It may be moot in most cases, but it is a little finesse. David
UMiskatonic 03-26-08, 02:20 PM	Think about your region/fellow players. Do you really need a big damage fighter? Or will you almost always have one around? Then, think about cohorts getting crushed in melee. They don't really have the HP or AC to compete well. If I were you, I'd consider building a high-AC dwarven fighter, to stand in front of your marshal with full plate and a tower shield. If he also hits something, that's even better. Then, take marshal auras that synergize with the cohort's abilities. Examples: Charging cohort + over the top. Tripping cohort + art of war, flanking cohort + master of tactics.
Timlagor 03-26-08, 02:40 PM	It has been clarified that Cohorts can use cards BUT those cards come out of the PC's stack (ie they don't get cards of their own but you can use the cards you have based on your PC level on the cohort instead of the PC)
MatteBlack 03-27-08, 01:47 AM	If it is not readily apparent, efficacy was not a high consideration in getting to this point but, it is what I have chosen for this character. The marshal would clearly be the better option to be the cohort but, he's the character that had that made sense to take a fighter cohort to round out our party. I wanted a fighter that felt elven so here we are. Hopefully, the two full clerics in the party should help with the cohort being thin for a frontliner. I was mostly looking at where to go next with the cohort and beyond 8th with the marshal than reviewing why I chose them. I play a character similar enough to the fighter as my primary that I believe I can utilize her in a safe and useful manner that still adheres with story and style I find interesting. Thanks for the clarification on the rewards cards and cohorts. I thought they got their own but, I can live with sacrificing a slot. Thanks also for the Improved Racial Familiarity and cleric/sacred healing ideas.
MwaO 03-27-08, 08:13 AM	If it is not readily apparent, efficacy was not a high consideration in getting to this point but, it is what I have chosen for this character. Then why don't you know what direction to take the cohort...why do you care if you can make him more efficient? Your clerics are going to spend a lot of time keeping him upright because he won't have the hit points to survive a full attack in LG. We don't know your story requirements - we do know your cohort isn't someone who can afford a decent AC, weapon, and is going to be always playing up 1-3 levels. I'd personally go something along the lines of Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 4/Champion of Corellon X with what appears to be your story requirements, but that would mean rearranging your stats and feats. Maybe think about Dervish, but again you've chosen a low Int route.
MatteBlack 03-27-08, 01:48 PM	Just trying to redirect my own thread more accurately back on target. Sorry for any confusion. While efficacy was not a primary concern, I'll still pay it some attention. Alot of the feedback was directed toward why I built this cohort and marshal as they were and how I should have when I was merely looking for solid additions to what is already in place.
UMiskatonic 03-27-08, 03:22 PM	While efficacy was not a primary concern... I don't think I can offer anything useful until I know what IS a primary concern. You said you wanted an elven fighter. Well, you've got one. What is it that you want? What problems are you having? If you are asking my honest opinion about what to do, while leaving the stats, and the snow elf, and the fighter 4 in place, here's what I'd do... 1) Recognize that you have no Con, and no AC. Also, not the greatest BAB. You will die a lot. 2) I'd retrain feats. A cohort will NEVER be a great damage dealer, but it sounds like your party needs someone up-front. So, create a guy who can hang out in melee for a while. 3) Why does a greatsword fighter need an 18 dex? You could just buy full plate, and have a 10 dex. 4) If you're sure you want an 18 dex, USE IT!!!!!. You should have combat reflexes, at the very least. Plus ranks in tumble, and other dex skills. This might mean a level in bard or rogue or scout or dervish. Get evasion too. 5) Consider a longsword, or Improved buckler defense. You'll need a shield bonus. And with two clerics, I'm sure you'll be able to get a magic vestment cast, but you need to at least own the shield first.
TWG_Prometheus 03-27-08, 03:52 PM	3) Why does a greatsword fighter need an 18 dex? You could just buy full plate, and have a 10 dex. 4) If you're sure you want an 18 dex, USE IT!!!!!. You should have combat reflexes, at the very least. Plus ranks in tumble, and other dex skills. This might mean a level in bard or rogue or scout or dervish. Get evasion too. Well, I'm pretty sure that he wanted to get Weapon Finesse going on the Elven Courtblade so I think I know the reasoning behind the feat choices. I don't think that was a superior choice since this character will be behind in enough ways that they'll need every edge they can get, and EWP isn't the way to make up lost ground. I don't think we're at the point where we can talk about scrapping the project and starting over, however, so that might just have to be a story for another day. If I was trying to keep this cohort alive and well from where he is, I'd first of all want him to not be the first guy on the front line. He can take a hit but not too much of one, and arriving before the rest of the actual PCs isn't a good way for him to stay not-dead. Look for something useful he can do on his first turn before charging into a (hopefully somewhat safe) part of the combat. Unfortunately, this character's mental stats are low, so finding an appropriate way to blow a standard action on something useful for the first round will be somewhat difficult. I was going to suggest a level or two of Bard, but his Charisma is so low that Inspirational Boost is out of the picture. Consider dropping Power Attack. The cohort's Attack bonus will rarely be high enough to allow the liberal use of Power Attack, and you may be better off using that feat slot for something defensive. I looked at the possibility of retraining any of the other feats, but removing any one of them would be worse than losing Power Attack...they're too tightly related. Rogue might be a good way to go with this character.
UMiskatonic 03-27-08, 04:48 PM	'Safer' methods of fighting include the spring attack tree, and/or using a reach weapon. Either of those are better uses of an 18 dex too, either by having really good mobility with tumble and mobility, or through the use of combat reflexes. Tumble 5 gets you the better version of fighting defensively too. Honestly, I think the paltry +1/+2 you get from weapon focus and weapon specialization are not worth it AT ALL. It's better than toughness, but not by much. You could make this guy a decent thrower with quick draw. Round one: move up, toss a tanglefoot bag, draw reach weapon. Round two: threaten large area of battlefield, beat guy with polearm from outside his range.
Timlagor 03-27-08, 06:04 PM	I'd agree that the Weapon Spec route is less than great with a 2H weapon even with Weapon Mastery to top it off -though it's certainly decent with MWM included. ...for Archers (or 1H-ers) that's a superb 3 Feats though.
MatteBlack 03-27-08, 10:47 PM	My experience through LG has rewarded early damage and effects dealt. A 2-handed full power attack charge on a flat footed opponent can be a great opener with a very high likelyhood of hitting. The thinking was that a high initiative (18 dex+marshal bonus) is likely to create frequent first strike attacks and driving as much as possible off one high stat would better utilize the elite array. Skill ranks went mostly to tumble and escape artist. The courtblade allows weapon finesse and has a good crit range and two damage types. I can definitely see how the weapon specialization might not carry it's weight even while effecting two weapons and I did not know about improved racial familiarity which is a better choice but only add a little extra flexibility. If it matters, this is for RHoD and the cohort seems to be able to find useful parts of the fight to thrive in. I suspect my improvements will likely be better armor and a push toward spring attack (likely at the expense of WF and Spec. that aren't as integral).
UMiskatonic 03-27-08, 11:24 PM	Aha, a charge build. Now we have something to play with.... a level of barbarian would allow +10 ft, and more hit points and damage when raging. a level of scout would add damage on the move as well. either of those adds skill points, might as well leverage that good dex. For feats, you'll do FAR better with feats that allow you to do something new, not something old with a +1 bonus. Consider Shock Trooper, Combat Brute, Imp. Sunder, Imp. Trip, Imp. Grapple, Imp. Bull Rush.
Timlagor 03-30-08, 01:14 PM	By the time you have counted the BAB-hit for Scout you don't get a lot of extra damage and that's more than compensated for by the times you don't get it at all. Charging ahead is a really bad idea in most combats. If the rest of the party is also set up to do HP damage fast then it can work well but otherwise you're just asking to get minced by the counterattack while your slower-moving friends are too far off to help and want to spend that round casting buffs.