Post/Author/DateTime	Post
soonerpat 06-30-07, 12:31 AM	Hi all, I'd like your input on a warpriest build. My goal is to have: Character Enjoyment Solid Healing/Buffing/Support Decent Undead Turning Good Melee involvement For Character I'm looking at a dwarf or wood elf. Dwarf is cool b/c I've never played one, wood elf is interesting with the ability scores. Also for character, an interesting and effective weapon would be a huge part of the character so the War domain would be one of the two chosen so I could pick up a decent weapon. What would you recommend for a war priest build of this type?
_metz_ 06-30-07, 04:29 AM	Hi all, I'd like your input on a warpriest build. My goal is to have: Character Enjoyment Solid Healing/Buffing/Support Decent Undead Turning Good Melee involvement For Character I'm looking at a dwarf or wood elf. Dwarf is cool b/c I've never played one, wood elf is interesting with the ability scores. Also for character, an interesting and effective weapon would be a huge part of the character so the War domain would be one of the two chosen so I could pick up a decent weapon. What would you recommend for a war priest build of this type? OK first of all, its impossible to do all of the above. Something has gotta give. You can have Solid casting and Turning by taking RSoP, or Can have Solid casting and melee abilities. Its really one or the other. Character Enjoyment is down to you, and can't really help you in that regard. I am a firm believer of the 'Dwarven Battle Cleric' as the best option. This means turning will suffer. stats: Str: 16 Dex: 10 Con:16 Int: 10 Wis: 15 Cha: 6 1: Cleric 1(Clandeggin Silver Beard - War, Strength): Power Attack 3: Cleric 3: Craft Wondrous Item 4: Stat bump WIS 6: Cleric 6: Craft Magic Arms and Armour??? 8: Stat bump: STR 9: Cleric 9: Quicken Spell 12: Cleric 12: FEAT??? Stat bump: STR 15: Cleric 15: FEAT??? Wield a battleaxe two handed, and cast Divine Power. A LOT. Quicken is for quickened Divine Power as soon as you can each combat. Craft Weapons and armour, early, and often.
copper_wyrmling 06-30-07, 10:18 AM	OK first of all, its impossible to do all of the above. Something has gotta give. You can have Solid casting and Turning by taking RSoP, or Can have Solid casting and melee abilities. Its really one or the other. That's not quite true - if you get the right item access (phylactery of undead turning, rod of defiance, lyre of the restful soul, various MIC items) and keep up your effective turning level, then being a good undead-turner happens more or less automatically. However, that is a gamble (since it depends on item access). To the OP: do you mean Warpriest the prestige class, or just a war priest / battle cleric theme? Radiant Servant isn't actually a bad class for a battle cleric - it gives favored fort / will, 3/4 bab, full casting / turning, full martial weapon proficiency (i.e. only take the war domain if you feel like it), and an extra domain. The extra greater turnings, healing-domain powers and light-based powers are icing on the cake. But yeah, the basics are pretty simple: high strength, decent con, decent wisdom; use a two-handed weapon and take power attack, craft wondrous item, maybe craft arms and armor (see what sort of access you've found, it's possible for the feat to be useless if all your armor / weapon upgrades are from favors), then quicken spell at 9th or 12th (I'd suggest 12th unless there's something else you want there); try not to lose any caster levels if possible.
CdrcJsn 06-30-07, 03:13 PM	A single classed Cleric with War and Sun/Glory also works pretty well with what the OP wanted. Start off with average scores: Str 14 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 15 Chr 12 for Feats, pick up Power Attack, and Craft Wondrous Items. The rest could be pretty much anything. Quicken Spell is a necessity at high levels (unless you pick up a rod of Quickening) for buffing yourself without using up precious actions. Craft Arms and Armor will allow you to convert gold to increased damage via weapon enhancements. Craft all the ability enhancing items you can and pick up some pearls of power via CWI. At low levels (1-5), you'll still be a decent fighter. At median levels you'll have spells to back up your fighting ability and lower HPs (Spiritual Weapon, Brambles/Spikes, Cures). At higher levels you have great buffs to put you on par with other fighters (Divine Power, quickened Divine Favor/Shield of Faith, greater magic weapon, magic vestment). You can afford one round of buffing yourself as you move to the battle. Don't spend more than one round though unless you truly have nothing to do. Clerics who spend 4 rounds buffing themselves before fighting are notoriously useless in most tables.
soonerpat 06-30-07, 08:46 PM	To the OP: do you mean Warpriest the prestige class, or just a war priest / battle cleric theme? I am looking for the prestige class. I think having a balanced cleric/tank type would be interesting. After reading everything I'm trying to decide between two paths which appeal to me.... 1. Wood Elf, Cleric of kalanen - Domains (War to have weapon focus Elven Courtblade and prof. w/ same) - Nobility - I like the bonus to allies for a round and spells.. - Glory (From war priest PrC and helps turning) Str 16 (boost at level 8 and 12) Dex 16 Con 12 Int 6 Wis 15 (boost at level 4) Chr 10 Cleric levels 1-7, then 8 levels of warpriest. Feats: Combat casting (for WarPriest), CWI, Craft Arms/Armor, Practiced Spell caster. OR-- 2. Hill Dwarf, Cleric of Kellanon - Domains (War to have weapon focus Elven courtblade or bastard sword and prof. w/ same (how's that for flavor??)) - Nobility - I like the bonus to allies for a round and spells.. - Glory (From war priest PrC and helps turning) Str 16 (boost at level 8 and 12) Dex 12 Con 12 Int 8 Wis 15 (boost at level 4) Chr 10 Cleric levels 1-7, then 8 levels of warpriest. Feats: Combat casting (for WarPriest), CWI, Craft Arms/Armor, Practiced Spell caster. The build is basically the same but the stats are better for Wood Elf. however I like the irony of the dwarf with an elven courtblade... plus the dwarf would have the movement in heavy armor. Thoughts/suggestions?
CdrcJsn 06-30-07, 09:39 PM	I am looking for the prestige class. I think having a balanced cleric/tank type would be interesting. After reading everything I'm trying to decide between two paths which appeal to me.... You sure you want to take Warpriest? A single casting of Divine Power pretty much makes any generic cleric have equivalent BAB/HPs. The only thing Warpriest has over cleric is the haste ability (available via celerity) and the mass heal at 9th class level (reachable only around 16th level unless you multiclass to a full bab class for two levels). If this is your first cleric type, I would suggest sticking with a full casting build as much as possible. A full caster cleric can become an awesome tank with some buffs allowing you flexibility in playstyle.
jstorrie 06-30-07, 10:29 PM	As an alternative, if you'd want to sway more to the tank side than the caster side, you could do Fighter 4 / Cleric 2 / Warpriest 1 / Battlesmith 1 / Warpriest 2-retirement. You pick up slightly higher HD, Weapon Spec, Weapon Mastery, and Wisdom to damage for more 'always on' combat ability. Another thing to look at–the Empower/Quicken/Maximize Spell-Like Ability feats for your Warpriest (Sp) class features.
copper_wyrmling 06-30-07, 10:57 PM	Thoughts/suggestions? - I believe courtblade is an exotic weapon, which means you can't get focus / proficiency from Kelanen (he grants focus / proficiency in any martial sword iirc). - If you're going to have Con 12 in either build, play the elf... the point of playing a dwarf would be to have Con 16+ and be a beefier tank. - I like jstorrie's idea, but fighter 4 / cleric 2 won't qualify for warpriest as you need 5 ranks in Sense Motive and neither has it as a class skill. Another level of cleric would fix that, though (you just have to buy it cross-class): you'd end up with fighter 4 / cleric 3 / battlesmith 1 / warpriest 7, with L6 cleric spellcasting (or you could take cleric 4 instead of warpriest 7 if you want L4 cleric spells more than Haste 3x/day). - Nine levels of warpriest is hard to get but nice if you can manage it, since it gives Mass Heal (which otherwise you'll never get in LG). Cleric 4 / paladin 2 / warpriest 9 would seem to work okay if you have the points for high Charisma - you might want to take extra smiting, divine might, etc - BUT you'd have to recognize you're a tank with undead turning, some spell-like abilities and a bit of cleric spellcasting, not a primary divine caster (you lose only 1 BAB but only have L8 cleric casting at retirement). This also has problems with XP penalty for anything but a human. I'm not sure what other full-BAB classes have Sense Motive (knight?)
soonerpat 06-30-07, 11:54 PM	Ouch! I was reading the phrase "any martial sword" and was so happy about "any" that I didn't catch "martial" as a limiting type... that's too bad really for my idea... I can switch to a different diety that allows bastard sword proficiency, but that reduces the crit range and the unique flavor of what I thought (momentarily) that I had there.. Any ideas on other good swords appreciated.. meanwhile I will reconsider the diety choice.. Even though that's a disappointment, you saved me some pain with that one. Thanks - pat
jstorrie 07-01-07, 01:17 AM	Clerics can get Sense Motive from the Pact domain. The deities with Pact that also have a Warpriest-required domain are Bralm (Suel goddess of insects and toil, Strength, favoured weapon quartertaff) and Cyrollalee (Halfing goddess of fellowship, Protection, favoured weapon club), so you could conceivably do a dwarven warpriest of Bralm that way. Or you could do Fighter 4 / Cleric 1 / Knight or Paladin 1, or as suggest above, Fighter 4 / Cleric 3 / Battlesmith 1 / Warpriest 7. A Fighter-heavy Warpriest may wish to consider taking Combat Form feats, potentially the Combat Dodge/Titan Fighting combo? Feats are tight for that, though... Dwarf Str 16 Dex 10 Con 16 Int 12 Wis 14 Cha 6 1 Cleric of Moradin (War, Strength): Weapon Focus: Warhammer, Combat Casting 2 Cleric 3 Cleric: Craft Wondrous Item 4 Fighter: Dodge 5 Fighter: Titan Fighting 6 Fighter: Endurance 7 Fighter: Weapon Specialization (Warhammer) 8 Battlesmith: Craft Magic Arms & Armor 9 Warpriest: Melee Weapon Mastery 10 Warpriest 11 Warpriest 12 Warpriest: Combat Defense 13 Warpriest 14 Warpriest 15 Warpriest: Combat Vigor One thing you'd never want for with a dwarf like this is money... with CWI and CMA&A, you'll be saving a ton on stat boosters and equipment. You have the tanking power you want, since you can clunk around in plate with a tower shield and still deal respectable damage with your one-handed warhammer thanks to +2 specialization +2 mastery +str mod +wis mod (+Strength domain?). Your undead-blasting power is pretty low, but I think that the crazy amounts of cash you'd save in the long run would help with that.
copper_wyrmling 07-01-07, 02:24 AM	Dwarf Str 16 Dex 10 Con 16 Int 12 Wis 14 Cha 6 1 Cleric of Moradin (War, Strength): Weapon Focus: Warhammer, Combat Casting 2 Cleric 3 Cleric: Craft Wondrous Item 4 Fighter: Dodge 5 Fighter: Titan Fighting 6 Fighter: Endurance 7 Fighter: Weapon Specialization (Warhammer) 8 Battlesmith: Craft Magic Arms & Armor 9 Warpriest: Melee Weapon Mastery 10 Warpriest 11 Warpriest 12 Warpriest: Combat Defense 13 Warpriest 14 Warpriest 15 Warpriest: Combat Vigor Some thoughts... I don't think the Strength domain is worthwhile when you're only taking three levels of cleric (warpriest won't advance the domain power iirc), and I wouldn't take the Combat Form feats unless you're getting three of them. I would definitely include Power Attack in any sort of tankish build using a two-handed weapon, especially one that can self-buff. Assuming you have plenty of TUs to burn (not always a good assumption), three cleric levels and CWI as early as possible is very nice - but if you're never going to have more than L4 cleric spells, Wis 14 is just fine (and you should wear a Con amulet rather than a Wis periapt, and bump something other than Wis), as you're not going to be using your spells offensively.
CdrcJsn 07-01-07, 03:24 AM	Considering your primary goals of: Character Enjoyment Solid Healing/Buffing/Support Decent Undead Turning Good Melee involvement I would still recommend a full caster cleric. A full caster cleric (any PrC as long as maintain full casting) can easily transition into a tank if the situation calls for it. The reverse isn't true for warpriest tanks trying to fulfill a buffing/healing role. BAB and HPs aren't a big concern for high level clerics (Divine Power), and support/healers are more often missing at most tables than a melee type.
Frumpkis 07-01-07, 05:06 AM	You have the tanking power you want, since you can clunk around in plate with a tower shield and still deal respectable damage with your one-handed warhammer thanks to +2 specialization +2 mastery +str mod +wis mod (+Strength domain?). How do you get the Wis modifier to add to damage?
_metz_ 07-01-07, 06:09 AM	A full RSoP will get you top notch turning, casting buffing and healing. If you have Power attack (Str 13 at least) Craft Wondrous Item, Quicken, and Divine Power, its completely viable. However, War Domain, Strength Domain, and Destruction domains are usually the good ones to have if you are making a melee battler. Crafting stuff like a phylactery isn't a big concern for a melee cleric, as Stat boosters are a bigger concern. Due to multi attribute deficiency, you want to start of with either REALLY high wisdom, con, or both. This is because you can't boost both without an Iuon stone. And even then not as well as you can, and for a much greater price. Hence a dwarf is probably inherently preferable. imo. You really shouldn't invest more than 8 points in strength, or a couple in charisma. It REALLY depends on what you mean by 'good at melee'. As for casting/buffing/healing, you really CAN'T go wrong with a full caster progression and the wisdom to cast the requisite spells. How do you get the Wis modifier to add to damage? Its a Dwarven Racial Substitution ability from Races of Stone.
copper_wyrmling 07-01-07, 07:20 AM	Its a Dwarven Racial Substitution ability from Races of Stone. Actually, I think they're talking about the Battlesmith ability: the racial sub gives you Smite Giants iirc (could be wrong, haven't looked at it for a while).
_metz_ 07-01-07, 07:35 AM	Actually, I think they're talking about the Battlesmith ability: the racial sub gives you Smite Giants iirc (could be wrong, haven't looked at it for a while). OH yes, just double checked, its Hammer Specialist that I was thinking of. (my bad.)
Mommy was an Orc 07-01-07, 10:06 AM	Swashbuckler gives Sense Motive. I think it is reasonably important to get War Priest 9 if you're going to go into the PrC - just for the fun of Mass Heal at 15th. I'd go Swashbuckler 1/Fighter 4/Cleric 1/War Priest 9 - you can get Melee Weapon Mastery.
Lupo 07-01-07, 02:25 PM	Swashbuckler gives Sense Motive. I think it is reasonably important to get War Priest 9 if you're going to go into the PrC - just for the fun of Mass Heal at 15th. I'd go Swashbuckler 1/Fighter 4/Cleric 1/War Priest 9 - you can get Melee Weapon Mastery. yea, when reading "war priest" one expect something totally different. but it is just another one of those "shiny booby traps" to delude a cleric from the one true path of pure cheese :P one definitely wants to get war priest 9, so any build like cleric 4/fighter 2/war priest 9, swashbuckler 1/cleric 4/fighter 1/war priest 9 - these for at least getting fifth level spells OR swashbuckler 1/fighter 4/cleric 1/war priest 9, fighter 4/cleric 2/war priest 9 - to get weapon mastery into it somehow - seem the most reasonable. so its basically a "fighter with some few divine powers and spells" for a straight cleric the caster progression plutonization is just a pain in a certain part of anatomy ;) and i would advise anyone who cares to ask me against this build. especially the shiny "bonus: glory domain" seems to be the trigger for the "booby trap". what good does this "bonus" do if one doesn't progress in "turning undead" any longer and the granted spells are coming in a very slow pace as the spellcaster advancement is 1/2 levels? ciao martin m.