Warmage race [Archive] - Wizards Community

Warmage race [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arvagor
10-12-06, 10:16 PM I'm thinking of putting together a warmage, and I'm looking for something different, race-wise (the majority of my PCs are human, although I have a high elf druid, and an asherati ranger, as well).

I was considering either a gray elf or a halfling:
- The gray elf gives nice starting bumps to Int and Dex, and the usual elfness (starting stats I'm considering @ the moment are Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 14, all after racial bumps)
- The halfling, of course, gets the bump on his saves, +1 size bonus on attacks and AC (stats: Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 14, all racial bumps)

Has anyone else considered either of these two races for this class?
kenobi65
10-12-06, 10:52 PM I play a grey elf warmage. After the racial adjusts, his stats are:
Str 10, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 16

With the racial proficiency in longbow, it gives me a way to be useful in combat if I run out of spells.

A small race, like halfling or gnome, could be another good choice, given that Str isn't particuarly important, and you get the nice plus on AC and attack rolls (good for those ranged touch spells).
Elf=Ponce
10-13-06, 12:05 PM I'm running a Grey Elf with that statline :Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10Cha 14.

No complaints so far, but I've only run 2 mods. and I feel like a Magic Missile Dispenser. Makes the sorceror a little jealous :)
Lomiat
10-13-06, 01:37 PM Gray Elf
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 16 Wis 8 Cha 14

with Point-Blank Shot at 1st level does 1d3+4 on an Acid Splash or Ray of Frost. It's sick.

The build, of course, continues to optimize ranged touch nastiness:
3rd - Precise Shot
4th - bump to INT
6th - Extra Edge
8th - bump to INT (somewhere in here you buy a Cloak of Cha +2 and a Headband of Int +2)
9th - Weapon Focus (ranged spell)
12th - bump to CHA, Weapon Specialization (ranged spell)

By 6th level, you do +6 damage on each ranged spell with Pt-Blank.
By 8th level, assuming you now have a Headband of Int +2, you do +8 damage on each ranged spell with Pt-Blank.
And by 12th, it goes up to +11 damage.

Orb of (element) for 12d6+11 is not too shabby, no save vs. the damage.

The Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization are iffy, of course, but you'd have plenty of time to adapt.
solbergb
10-13-06, 01:52 PM Halflings make excellent warmages. Their dex bonus to hit and size bonus to hit are pretty handy and can somewhat obviate the need to blow two feats on precise shot. Gnomes are pretty good too.
ornsjach
10-13-06, 02:10 PM my sugestion would be gray elf
str6, dex16, con14, int16, wis8, cha14
feat: point blank shot
GrahamWills
10-13-06, 05:10 PM I have a level 5 halfling warmage. Napoleon StoutFoot the First. He will be taking Marshal (and practised spellcaster at levles 7&8) and hopefully by then some book will have added a RulerOfTheWorld prestige class, which is what he is aiming for.

He went with feat that improves UMD and one other, so hecan pretty much read most scrolls by now with little chance of failure and therefore he has no need of the lesser magical classes (or, as he calls them: "utility casters").

Point Blank, Precise, Increased Edge would be the 'optimal' three feats for him, but I went with a familiar at third level. It's nice to be able to shrink down and have my hawk carry me for a minute, as well as the other familar effects. I'll be taking practised spell caster at 6 in preparation for some marshall levels.
Arvagor
10-14-06, 10:17 PM I notice a lot of people (intentionally?) keeping Cha low, even though it's the stat that save DCs are based on, as well as determining whether you can cast a spell of a particular level. Obviously, unless you're going to be playing a character in the high-level campaign, you're never going to have access to anything higher than 8th level spells, so "only" Cha 18 would be necessary to go to your spellcasting limit. But why put the stat bumps in Int and rely on Cloak of Charisma for the Cha boost? Is it because you feel the Edge bonus to damage is more important than the save DCs (and bonus spells)? Or is it because most (it seems) of the warmage spells are ranged touch spells, and generally don't have saves?
Lomiat
10-14-06, 10:50 PM I notice a lot of people (intentionally?) keeping Cha low, even though it's the stat that save DCs are based on, as well as determining whether you can cast a spell of a particular level. Obviously, unless you're going to be playing a character in the high-level campaign, you're never going to have access to anything higher than 8th level spells, so "only" Cha 18 would be necessary to go to your spellcasting limit. But why put the stat bumps in Int and rely on Cloak of Charisma for the Cha boost? Is it because you feel the Edge bonus to damage is more important than the save DCs (and bonus spells)? Or is it because most (it seems) of the warmage spells are ranged touch spells, and generally don't have saves?

The build I offered focused on ranged touch spells and wouldn't allow saves vs. damage. Another thread discussed a different warmage build, focusing more on metamagic, and such a build would be better served by a high CHA. The ranged touch warmage is going to serve roughly the same role in a party as an archer.
Arvagor
10-14-06, 11:23 PM The Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization are iffy, of course, but you'd have plenty of time to adapt.Was your build working in fighter levels as well? WS requires fighter level 4th...

The ranged touch warmage is going to serve roughly the same role in a party as an archer.That's kind of the role I was looking at; it's a role that none of my other PCs plays at the moment...
DuctShuiTengu
10-15-06, 12:17 AM I think the feat he meant there was Ranged Spell Specialization, from Complete Arcane, which instead requires you to have the right caster level (or is it just 2nd level spells?) to qualify, though it does the same thing.
Lomiat
10-15-06, 01:24 PM I think the feat he meant there was Ranged Spell Specialization, from Complete Arcane, which instead requires you to have the right caster level (or is it just 2nd level spells?) to qualify, though it does the same thing.

Correct. The feat is in Complete Arcane. Whatever pre-reqs it has, they can be satisfied by going straight warmage.
amnuxoll
10-16-06, 02:10 PM I notice a lot of people (intentionally?) keeping Cha low, even though it's the stat that save DCs are based on, as well as determining whether you can cast a spell of a particular level. Obviously, unless you're going to be playing a character in the high-level campaign, you're never going to have access to anything higher than 8th level spells, so "only" Cha 18 would be necessary to go to your spellcasting limit. But why put the stat bumps in Int and rely on Cloak of Charisma for the Cha boost? Is it because you feel the Edge bonus to damage is more important than the save DCs (and bonus spells)? Or is it because most (it seems) of the warmage spells are ranged touch spells, and generally don't have saves?

I'm with Arvagor here. I see an awful lot of warmages out there who have payed a high price in Cha just to get a 14 Int. If you ask me, Int should be a dump stat for Warmage unless you truly intend to crank it (and take Extra Edge more than once). Adding +2 damage to magic missile is great at 1st level but at 7th level it's a drop in the bucket. Why spend more than half your career wishing you hadn't wasted those ability points on Int? I acknowledge that the warmage spell list has a nice selection of ranged spells that don't allow a save, but it also has an equal number of impressive spells that do. I would not want to be an 6th level warmage with a mediocre Cha facing multiple combatants and afraid to use Fireball because the save DC is low.

I personally think an optimal warmage should have something like these stats:

Str 11 <-- for wearing armor w/o encumbrance
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 8 <-- The only skill you need is Concentration.
Wis 8
Cha 17

Re-addressing the original topic of the thread, I think a neat unique (if not as optimal) warmage would be a dwarf who uses the Arcane Disciple feat to best effect:

Stats: Str 8; Dex 14; Con 14; Int 8; Wis 13; Cha 15
Skills: Concentration
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Arcane Disciple (Healing Domain), Empower Spell
Essential Magic Items: Cloak of Cha, Periapt of Wis, Mithral full plate,

Build Weaknesses: There's no doubt that the Cha penalty hurts, hit points will be on par with a wizard (due to loss of amulet of health slot to periapt of wisdom).

Build Strengths: Here's a warmage that can dish out plenty of damage but turn around in a pinch and save the party's bacon with a Sudden Empower + Cure xxx Wounds combo. Nice! There's also a lot of roleplaying value in a build like this.

If you don't like Arcane Disciple, you can probably get a lot of mileage out of Kiai shout. A third option (which is the most boring but most technically sound) is just to switch to Spell Focus and Gr. Spell Focus to compensate for the low Cha.

:AMN:
trollbill
10-16-06, 02:51 PM I have a level 5 halfling warmage. Napoleon StoutFoot the First. He will be taking Marshal (and practised spellcaster at levles 7&8) and hopefully by then some book will have added a RulerOfTheWorld prestige class, which is what he is aiming for.

He went with feat that improves UMD and one other, so hecan pretty much read most scrolls by now with little chance of failure and therefore he has no need of the lesser magical classes (or, as he calls them: "utility casters").

Point Blank, Precise, Increased Edge would be the 'optimal' three feats for him, but I went with a familiar at third level. It's nice to be able to shrink down and have my hawk carry me for a minute, as well as the other familar effects. I'll be taking practised spell caster at 6 in preparation for some marshall levels.

This brings up a guestion I keep forgetting to ask. The Complete Arcane says you can treat ranged spells as weapons for feat and ability purposes. Does this mean a Halfling using ranged touch spells such as Lesser Acid Orb or Ray of Frost get their racial bonus for using thrown weapons?
Arvagor
10-16-06, 03:31 PM I'm with Arvagor here. I see an awful lot of warmages out there who have payed a high price in Cha just to get a 14 Int. If you ask me, Int should be a dump stat for Warmage unless you truly intend to crank it (and take Extra Edge more than once).Hold on; I wasn't advocating one way or the other -- I just was curious what the rationale was. I think Int is important -- after all, a warmage is all about the damage, and anything you can get that boosts your damage output is A Good Thing®.

Int 8 <-- The only skill you need is Concentration.I'd disagree there; Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft may be important if you have certain PrCs in mind. Unless an author has written in auto-surprise, Spot and Listen -- despite being cross-class -- are also good to have, as that means you're blasting in the surprise round.

This brings up a guestion I keep forgetting to ask. The Complete Arcane says you can treat ranged spells as weapons for feat and ability purposes. Does this mean a Halfling using ranged touch spells such as Lesser Acid Orb or Ray of Frost get their racial bonus for using thrown weapons?I don't believe so; the feats in question are very clearly laid out on page 72-73 of Complete Arcane. And despite a spell being weapon-"like", it is still a spell, and not a thrown weapon, IMO.
Morgen
10-19-06, 03:24 AM Int 8 <-- The only skill you need is Concentration.

Well I don't know about everyone else, but I personally appreciate playing with characters who have SKILLS! Warmages have some very useful skills like Intimidate and Knowledge Skills that could seriously help out in a lot of situations.

Edge does have other uses, it does help with damage over time spells and it multiplies on a critical hit too. Focusing on the No Save/No SR spells isn't such a terrible idea either.
Alma
10-19-06, 04:48 AM I have a 7th Lv warmage (in Jail dam 52 time unit penalty) that uses Gray elf 12 str 14 dex 10 con 16 int 8 wiz 16 cha paying a price on the saves and HP but i havent had much of a problem with that from the far back row of combat. The high int helps my diplomacy mostly just to keep me happy and because no one lese wants to.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arvagor 10-12-06, 10:16 PM	I'm thinking of putting together a warmage, and I'm looking for something different, race-wise (the majority of my PCs are human, although I have a high elf druid, and an asherati ranger, as well). I was considering either a gray elf or a halfling: - The gray elf gives nice starting bumps to Int and Dex, and the usual elfness (starting stats I'm considering @ the moment are Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 14, all after racial bumps) - The halfling, of course, gets the bump on his saves, +1 size bonus on attacks and AC (stats: Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 14, all racial bumps) Has anyone else considered either of these two races for this class?
kenobi65 10-12-06, 10:52 PM	I play a grey elf warmage. After the racial adjusts, his stats are: Str 10, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 16 With the racial proficiency in longbow, it gives me a way to be useful in combat if I run out of spells. A small race, like halfling or gnome, could be another good choice, given that Str isn't particuarly important, and you get the nice plus on AC and attack rolls (good for those ranged touch spells).
Elf=Ponce 10-13-06, 12:05 PM	I'm running a Grey Elf with that statline :Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10Cha 14. No complaints so far, but I've only run 2 mods. and I feel like a Magic Missile Dispenser. Makes the sorceror a little jealous :)
Lomiat 10-13-06, 01:37 PM	Gray Elf Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 16 Wis 8 Cha 14 with Point-Blank Shot at 1st level does 1d3+4 on an Acid Splash or Ray of Frost. It's sick. The build, of course, continues to optimize ranged touch nastiness: 3rd - Precise Shot 4th - bump to INT 6th - Extra Edge 8th - bump to INT (somewhere in here you buy a Cloak of Cha +2 and a Headband of Int +2) 9th - Weapon Focus (ranged spell) 12th - bump to CHA, Weapon Specialization (ranged spell) By 6th level, you do +6 damage on each ranged spell with Pt-Blank. By 8th level, assuming you now have a Headband of Int +2, you do +8 damage on each ranged spell with Pt-Blank. And by 12th, it goes up to +11 damage. Orb of (element) for 12d6+11 is not too shabby, no save vs. the damage. The Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization are iffy, of course, but you'd have plenty of time to adapt.
solbergb 10-13-06, 01:52 PM	Halflings make excellent warmages. Their dex bonus to hit and size bonus to hit are pretty handy and can somewhat obviate the need to blow two feats on precise shot. Gnomes are pretty good too.
ornsjach 10-13-06, 02:10 PM	my sugestion would be gray elf str6, dex16, con14, int16, wis8, cha14 feat: point blank shot
GrahamWills 10-13-06, 05:10 PM	I have a level 5 halfling warmage. Napoleon StoutFoot the First. He will be taking Marshal (and practised spellcaster at levles 7&8) and hopefully by then some book will have added a RulerOfTheWorld prestige class, which is what he is aiming for. He went with feat that improves UMD and one other, so hecan pretty much read most scrolls by now with little chance of failure and therefore he has no need of the lesser magical classes (or, as he calls them: "utility casters"). Point Blank, Precise, Increased Edge would be the 'optimal' three feats for him, but I went with a familiar at third level. It's nice to be able to shrink down and have my hawk carry me for a minute, as well as the other familar effects. I'll be taking practised spell caster at 6 in preparation for some marshall levels.
Arvagor 10-14-06, 10:17 PM	I notice a lot of people (intentionally?) keeping Cha low, even though it's the stat that save DCs are based on, as well as determining whether you can cast a spell of a particular level. Obviously, unless you're going to be playing a character in the high-level campaign, you're never going to have access to anything higher than 8th level spells, so "only" Cha 18 would be necessary to go to your spellcasting limit. But why put the stat bumps in Int and rely on Cloak of Charisma for the Cha boost? Is it because you feel the Edge bonus to damage is more important than the save DCs (and bonus spells)? Or is it because most (it seems) of the warmage spells are ranged touch spells, and generally don't have saves?
Lomiat 10-14-06, 10:50 PM	I notice a lot of people (intentionally?) keeping Cha low, even though it's the stat that save DCs are based on, as well as determining whether you can cast a spell of a particular level. Obviously, unless you're going to be playing a character in the high-level campaign, you're never going to have access to anything higher than 8th level spells, so "only" Cha 18 would be necessary to go to your spellcasting limit. But why put the stat bumps in Int and rely on Cloak of Charisma for the Cha boost? Is it because you feel the Edge bonus to damage is more important than the save DCs (and bonus spells)? Or is it because most (it seems) of the warmage spells are ranged touch spells, and generally don't have saves? The build I offered focused on ranged touch spells and wouldn't allow saves vs. damage. Another thread discussed a different warmage build, focusing more on metamagic, and such a build would be better served by a high CHA. The ranged touch warmage is going to serve roughly the same role in a party as an archer.
Arvagor 10-14-06, 11:23 PM	The Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization are iffy, of course, but you'd have plenty of time to adapt.Was your build working in fighter levels as well? WS requires fighter level 4th... The ranged touch warmage is going to serve roughly the same role in a party as an archer.That's kind of the role I was looking at; it's a role that none of my other PCs plays at the moment...
DuctShuiTengu 10-15-06, 12:17 AM	I think the feat he meant there was Ranged Spell Specialization, from Complete Arcane, which instead requires you to have the right caster level (or is it just 2nd level spells?) to qualify, though it does the same thing.
Lomiat 10-15-06, 01:24 PM	I think the feat he meant there was Ranged Spell Specialization, from Complete Arcane, which instead requires you to have the right caster level (or is it just 2nd level spells?) to qualify, though it does the same thing. Correct. The feat is in Complete Arcane. Whatever pre-reqs it has, they can be satisfied by going straight warmage.
amnuxoll 10-16-06, 02:10 PM	I notice a lot of people (intentionally?) keeping Cha low, even though it's the stat that save DCs are based on, as well as determining whether you can cast a spell of a particular level. Obviously, unless you're going to be playing a character in the high-level campaign, you're never going to have access to anything higher than 8th level spells, so "only" Cha 18 would be necessary to go to your spellcasting limit. But why put the stat bumps in Int and rely on Cloak of Charisma for the Cha boost? Is it because you feel the Edge bonus to damage is more important than the save DCs (and bonus spells)? Or is it because most (it seems) of the warmage spells are ranged touch spells, and generally don't have saves? I'm with Arvagor here. I see an awful lot of warmages out there who have payed a high price in Cha just to get a 14 Int. If you ask me, Int should be a dump stat for Warmage unless you truly intend to crank it (and take Extra Edge more than once). Adding +2 damage to magic missile is great at 1st level but at 7th level it's a drop in the bucket. Why spend more than half your career wishing you hadn't wasted those ability points on Int? I acknowledge that the warmage spell list has a nice selection of ranged spells that don't allow a save, but it also has an equal number of impressive spells that do. I would not want to be an 6th level warmage with a mediocre Cha facing multiple combatants and afraid to use Fireball because the save DC is low. I personally think an optimal warmage should have something like these stats: Str 11 <-- for wearing armor w/o encumbrance Dex 14 Con 14 Int 8 <-- The only skill you need is Concentration. Wis 8 Cha 17 Re-addressing the original topic of the thread, I think a neat unique (if not as optimal) warmage would be a dwarf who uses the Arcane Disciple feat to best effect: Stats: Str 8; Dex 14; Con 14; Int 8; Wis 13; Cha 15 Skills: Concentration Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Arcane Disciple (Healing Domain), Empower Spell Essential Magic Items: Cloak of Cha, Periapt of Wis, Mithral full plate, Build Weaknesses: There's no doubt that the Cha penalty hurts, hit points will be on par with a wizard (due to loss of amulet of health slot to periapt of wisdom). Build Strengths: Here's a warmage that can dish out plenty of damage but turn around in a pinch and save the party's bacon with a Sudden Empower + Cure xxx Wounds combo. Nice! There's also a lot of roleplaying value in a build like this. If you don't like Arcane Disciple, you can probably get a lot of mileage out of Kiai shout. A third option (which is the most boring but most technically sound) is just to switch to Spell Focus and Gr. Spell Focus to compensate for the low Cha. :AMN:
trollbill 10-16-06, 02:51 PM	I have a level 5 halfling warmage. Napoleon StoutFoot the First. He will be taking Marshal (and practised spellcaster at levles 7&8) and hopefully by then some book will have added a RulerOfTheWorld prestige class, which is what he is aiming for. He went with feat that improves UMD and one other, so hecan pretty much read most scrolls by now with little chance of failure and therefore he has no need of the lesser magical classes (or, as he calls them: "utility casters"). Point Blank, Precise, Increased Edge would be the 'optimal' three feats for him, but I went with a familiar at third level. It's nice to be able to shrink down and have my hawk carry me for a minute, as well as the other familar effects. I'll be taking practised spell caster at 6 in preparation for some marshall levels. This brings up a guestion I keep forgetting to ask. The Complete Arcane says you can treat ranged spells as weapons for feat and ability purposes. Does this mean a Halfling using ranged touch spells such as Lesser Acid Orb or Ray of Frost get their racial bonus for using thrown weapons?
Arvagor 10-16-06, 03:31 PM	I'm with Arvagor here. I see an awful lot of warmages out there who have payed a high price in Cha just to get a 14 Int. If you ask me, Int should be a dump stat for Warmage unless you truly intend to crank it (and take Extra Edge more than once).Hold on; I wasn't advocating one way or the other -- I just was curious what the rationale was. I think Int is important -- after all, a warmage is all about the damage, and anything you can get that boosts your damage output is A Good Thing®. Int 8 <-- The only skill you need is Concentration.I'd disagree there; Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft may be important if you have certain PrCs in mind. Unless an author has written in auto-surprise, Spot and Listen -- despite being cross-class -- are also good to have, as that means you're blasting in the surprise round. This brings up a guestion I keep forgetting to ask. The Complete Arcane says you can treat ranged spells as weapons for feat and ability purposes. Does this mean a Halfling using ranged touch spells such as Lesser Acid Orb or Ray of Frost get their racial bonus for using thrown weapons?I don't believe so; the feats in question are very clearly laid out on page 72-73 of Complete Arcane. And despite a spell being weapon-"like", it is still a spell, and not a thrown weapon, IMO.
Morgen 10-19-06, 03:24 AM	Int 8 <-- The only skill you need is Concentration. Well I don't know about everyone else, but I personally appreciate playing with characters who have SKILLS! Warmages have some very useful skills like Intimidate and Knowledge Skills that could seriously help out in a lot of situations. Edge does have other uses, it does help with damage over time spells and it multiplies on a critical hit too. Focusing on the No Save/No SR spells isn't such a terrible idea either.
Alma 10-19-06, 04:48 AM	I have a 7th Lv warmage (in Jail dam 52 time unit penalty) that uses Gray elf 12 str 14 dex 10 con 16 int 8 wiz 16 cha paying a price on the saves and HP but i havent had much of a problem with that from the far back row of combat. The high int helps my diplomacy mostly just to keep me happy and because no one lese wants to.