Post/Author/DateTime	Post
copper_wyrmling 04-04-07, 09:39 PM	Hi all, I'm in the rare and fortunate position of having more access than I know what to do with, for my L8 falchion-wielding dervish. I'd like your advice on what weapon upgrades to save up for - this is my first nonspellcaster character. -I have a favor that allows me to buy any weapon or armor from the DMG costing 9000gp or less. My Triad has clarified that this includes constructing a weapon or armor using enhancements from the DMG, so for example a +1 vicious falchion or a +1 light fortification mithral breastplate would both be okay. -I have a favor that allows me to add any +1 or +2 enhancement from the DMG to an existing weapon or armor. -I also have access to a nonstandard falchion that can be upgraded to Holy and then to +2, but not beyond that. (It has other abilities, but those don't rely on me wielding it, and they don't affect the pricing of weapon enhancements.) -I have one other really amazing favor that I could burn to get access to Holy, Sacred, Ghost Touch, Disrupting, Ghost Strike, Heavenly Burst or Sacred Burst weapon upgrades, or Ghost Touch, Angelic, Blinding, Sacred or Ghost Ward armor upgrades. However, another option for that favor would allow me to buy a Sacred Scabbard and still have access to a ring of water walking or minor ring of spell storing, so I think I'd prefer to spend it on that (the version of the Sacred Scabbard in the MIC is amazing for a falchion-wielder who's likely to take Improved Critical). -I have separate access to the Death Ward armor enhancement and the Fortunate weapon enhancement. The character is currently a wood elf ranger 1 / barbarian 2 / fighter 2 / dervish 3, and I plan to stick with dervish until retirement. He's currently using a +1 falchion and wearing a +1 mithral breastplate. Current feats are Track (B), Expeditious Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack (B), Power Attack, Combat Expertise, and Weapon Focus (Falchion): his L9 and L12 feats will most likely be Acrobatic Strike and Improved Critical (Falchion). His stats before magical enhancement, at L8, are Str 19 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 13 Wis 8 Cha 8 (he's wearing a Con-booster and probably about to buy a +4 strength belt: he's been saving up); his L12 stat-bump will go to Strength. Holy and Sacred don't seem so essential in light of the MIC version of the Sacred Scabbard (casts Bless Weapon as a swift action when you draw the weapon, three times / day, each time it lasts for 10 rounds). Holy is still pretty nice though, since most bad guys are evil. Vicious, Spell Storing and Merciful all look somewhat tempting among the +1 enhancements, and I think Wounding and Holy are clearly the best of the +2 DMG upgrades. So what do you think? Should I buy the nonstandard falchion and use it as a primary weapon, or will I get frustrated by not being able to add enhancements beyond +2 Holy? If I don't use the nonstandard falchion, which enhancements do you think I should start saving up for?
clannagh 04-04-07, 10:23 PM	Hi all, I'm in the rare and fortunate position of having more access than I know what to do with, for my L8 falchion-wielding dervish. I'd like your advice on what weapon upgrades to save up for - this is my first nonspellcaster character. -I have a favor that allows me to buy any weapon or armor from the DMG costing 9000gp or less. My Triad has clarified that this includes constructing a weapon or armor using enhancements from the DMG, so for example a +1 vicious falchion or a +1 light fortification mithral breastplate would both be okay. -I have a favor that allows me to add any +1 or +2 enhancement from the DMG to an existing weapon or armor. -I also have access to a nonstandard falchion that can be upgraded to Holy and then to +2, but not beyond that. (It has other abilities, but those don't rely on me wielding it, and they don't affect the pricing of weapon enhancements.) -I have one other really amazing favor that I could burn to get access to Holy, Sacred, Ghost Touch, Disrupting, Ghost Strike, Heavenly Burst or Sacred Burst weapon upgrades, or Ghost Touch, Angelic, Blinding, Sacred or Ghost Ward armor upgrades. However, another option for that favor would allow me to buy a Sacred Scabbard and still have access to a ring of water walking or minor ring of spell storing, so I think I'd prefer to spend it on that (the version of the Sacred Scabbard in the MIC is amazing for a falchion-wielder who's likely to take Improved Critical). -I have separate access to the Death Ward armor enhancement and the Fortunate weapon enhancement. The character is currently a wood elf ranger 1 / barbarian 2 / fighter 2 / dervish 3, and I plan to stick with dervish until retirement. He's currently using a +1 falchion and wearing a +1 mithral breastplate. Current feats are Track (B), Expeditious Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack (B), Power Attack, Combat Expertise, and Weapon Focus (Falchion): his L9 and L12 feats will most likely be Acrobatic Strike and Improved Critical (Falchion). His stats before magical enhancement, at L8, are Str 19 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 13 Wis 8 Cha 8 (he's wearing a Con-booster and probably about to buy a +4 strength belt: he's been saving up); his L12 stat-bump will go to Strength. Holy and Sacred don't seem so essential in light of the MIC version of the Sacred Scabbard (casts Bless Weapon as a swift action when you draw the weapon, three times / day, each time it lasts for 10 rounds). Holy is still pretty nice though, since most bad guys are evil. Vicious, Spell Storing and Merciful all look somewhat tempting among the +1 enhancements, and I think Wounding and Holy are clearly the best of the +2 DMG upgrades. So what do you think? Should I buy the nonstandard falchion and use it as a primary weapon, or will I get frustrated by not being able to add enhancements beyond +2 Holy? If I don't use the nonstandard falchion, which enhancements do you think I should start saving up for? thats one odd falchion .. a holy weapon that caps at +2 regardless of what other upgrade favors you have :) one temptation with a potential 15 to 20 crit is to go for the shocking burst style enhancements that fire off on a crit but you might want to get out the old spreadsheet and crunch some numbers just to see what gives the best average damage over time and confirming iteratives can always be hard it also depends a lot on what you fight and how often you meet crit immune critters !!
copper_wyrmling 04-04-07, 10:37 PM	thats one odd falchion .. a holy weapon that caps at +2 regardless of what other upgrade favors you have :) Well, it's nonstandard, it has other powers as well - it would probably become intelligent eventually, if I had the class levels to upgrade it fully (paladins can upgrade it to a holy avenger, and at that point are asked to contact the Triad). I may well go NG->LG and take a paladin level in the high-level campaign so I can upgrade it all the way, just for coolness factor ;) one temptation with a potential 15 to 20 crit is to go for the shocking burst style enhancements that fire off on a crit but you might want to get out the old spreadsheet and crunch some numbers just to see what gives the best average damage over time and confirming iteratives can always be hard it also depends a lot on what you fight and how often you meet crit immune critters !! I honestly have no idea what opponents are likely in the future: the Sheldomar Valley seems to have quite a variety. I think the burst enhancements are a bad idea, because I strongly suspect they prevent the crit-confirming part of Bless Weapon from working (they're a "magical effect related to critical hits"), and I want my free confirmations ;)
clannagh 04-04-07, 10:42 PM	Well, it's nonstandard, it has other powers as well - it would probably become intelligent eventually, if I had the class levels to upgrade it fully (paladins can upgrade it to a holy avenger, and at that point are asked to contact the Triad). I may well go NG->LG and take a paladin level in the high-level campaign so I can upgrade it all the way, just for coolness factor ;) I honestly have no idea what opponents are likely in the future: the Sheldomar Valley seems to have quite a variety. I think the burst enhancements are a bad idea, because I strongly suspect they prevent the crit-confirming part of Bless Weapon from working (they're a "magical effect related to critical hits"), and I want my free confirmations ;) holy avenger, hmm interesting .. with cha 8 will the paladin smite evil give a negative to hit :)
UMiskatonic 04-05-07, 12:20 AM	Well, I personally think you are better off with three +2 weapons (8000 x3 = 24000) than with one + 4 weapon (32000). If -I- were a dervish, I'd want a cold iron, and an adamantine falchion. If it's more convenient for you to have a primary weapon that isn't one of those, then enchant the others to +1 and leave them there. The special weapon is where I would personally go. First, it's cooler. Second, how much better than +2 holy to you think you'll really need? Thirdly, the money used to upgrade that +2 holy to a +3 holy would be better spent on an adamantine weapon. The way I see it, the +1 does one more point of damage. The weapon you need, when you need it, does as much as ten more points of damage. No contest. Aside from that, you'll want a silver, magic, bludgeoning weapon. It's for undead creatures. It will get through the DR of both vampires and liches, and if you take a morningstar, you'll get piercing for free. Enchanting that sucker to undead bane or ghost touch is a fantastic move. As you move up in levels, you'll see more and more creatures immune to crits. It's more common to see fortified armor at higher APLs, and it's more common to see outsiders, constructs, and undead as foes, which are often or always crit-immune. Don't worry so much about AC or death ward. You have an acceptible fort save, and any intelligent enemy will target wizards and bards with things like "Fort save or die". As a dervish, you deal damage by making LOTS of smaller attacks. It's vital that you not get boned by DR, otherwise you make a lot of attacks that do nothing. At this point, it doesn't matter what your AC is, because you'll eventually get killed by an enemy which you can't injure.
copper_wyrmling 04-05-07, 01:39 AM	Thanks for the input so far :) Well, I personally think you are better off with three +2 weapons (8000 x3 = 24000) than with one + 4 weapon (32000). But I can only use one of them at a time... ;) If -I- were a dervish, I'd want a cold iron, and an adamantine falchion. If it's more convenient for you to have a primary weapon that isn't one of those, then enchant the others to +1 and leave them there. The special weapon is where I would personally go. First, it's cooler. Second, how much better than +2 holy to you think you'll really need? Thirdly, the money used to upgrade that +2 holy to a +3 holy would be better spent on an adamantine weapon. The way I see it, the +1 does one more point of damage. The weapon you need, when you need it, does as much as ten more points of damage. No contest. I wouldn't be adding another +1! (at higher levels, GMW seems to be fairly common: it certainly seems to be expected of my casters.) I'd be adding merciful / spellstoring / vicious / sacred / undead bane / wounding / magebane etc, that sort of fun stuff ;) If I could upgrade it at my choice, I probably wouldn't make it +2 Holy, I'd make it +1 Holy and then add something else funky, unless I regularly played with a group where I knew I wouldn't be getting GMW. Of course, adding a straight +1 is actually effectively +3 damage, with two-handed power attack. It's quite a good deal for someone who crits a lot, if GMW isn't readily available. I could use the "any weapon from the DMG below 9000gp" to get a +1 adamantine falchion, but that seems like a bit of a waste. Cold iron gets expensive if you don't enchant it all in one go, although I probably will upgrade my masterwork cold iron falchion to magic at some point. Aside from that, you'll want a silver, magic, bludgeoning weapon. It's for undead creatures. It will get through the DR of both vampires and liches, and if you take a morningstar, you'll get piercing for free. Enchanting that sucker to undead bane or ghost touch is a fantastic move. I disagree, actually. Dervish dance only works with slashing weapons. Using a bludgeoning weapon most likely deprives the character of his full attack in the first round, and sheathing / drawing consumes more move actions (i.e. possibly also depriving him of full attacks in later rounds). Being able to full attack rather than single attack generally swamps the damage lost to DR. Also, by L12 dervish dance gives +4 to hit and damage, and using a falchion gives +1 to hit due to weapon focus, which when converted into two-handed power attack means +14 damage over a mace or morningstar before even considering enhancements on the weapons - it more than compensates for DR even if the full attack is disallowed for other reasons. My undead bane weapon will probably just be a silver falchion, or given the right access, a holy falchion with a weapon capsule retainer, a quicksilver capsule and a greater truedeath augment crystal ;) I doubt I'll be that lucky though. As you move up in levels, you'll see more and more creatures immune to crits. Ah... just to make something clear. This is my first nonspellcaster character. I have a L15 cleric who regularly fights in melee (with a +1 holy brambled quarterstaff) and a L12 sorcerer, so I know how high APLs generally work. It's more common to see fortified armor at higher APLs, Still rare in my experience... I think I've seen access three times with my high-levels, and twice was from favors rather than from items looted from an NPC. and it's more common to see outsiders, constructs, and undead as foes, which are often or always crit-immune. Outsiders aren't - I assume you meant elementals. The build doesn't rely on crits to be effective, it's just a nice benefit. I've fought enough high-APL battles against fiends of various types and classed humanoids / monstrous humanoids / templated animals that I think I'll get to use it moderately often. (I am contemplating Favored Power Attack as the PC's L15 feat, since he has Favored Enemy: Undead, but that's a LONG way off.) Don't worry so much about AC or death ward. You have an acceptible fort save, and any intelligent enemy will target wizards and bards with things like "Fort save or die". It's nice to stave off no-save effects like energy drain, but I agree, at the moment I'm more interested in boosting offence than defence. As a dervish, you deal damage by making LOTS of smaller attacks. It's vital that you not get boned by DR, otherwise you make a lot of attacks that do nothing. At this point, it doesn't matter what your AC is, because you'll eventually get killed by an enemy which you can't injure. Ah, I see - you're operating under an incorrect assumption. This is a two-handed power-attacking falchion-wielding dervish who started with Str 18 and is advancing Strength: he plays a lot like a THF barbarian except that he gets to full attack more and he gets his to-hit and damage bonuses from dervish dance instead of rage + charge. (And he takes a LOT less damage and thus consumes a lot less party resources in healing: otoh, he's rather more reluctant to stand in place to protect the squishies or provide flanking.) He's not doing damage by making a lot of smaller attacks - he has no feats or abilities that grant extra attacks, and he gets his damage by getting full attacks pretty much every round and using Str + dance + Power Attack to generate large damage on each swing. At the moment he's doing damage in about 20-30pt chunks, or double that if he crits, because I tend to PA conservatively and he's got 15000gp that he's saved rather than spent. Next level, he'll have Acrobatic Strike and hopefully his +4 belt, which will make PA'ing for full a better proposition: at that point, if he hits, he'll be doing about 35-40 damage / swing, double that on a crit. At L12, he should be able to do ~50 damage / hit (still assuming not much in the way of weapon enhancements), ~90 damage on a crit, with primary attack bonuses still in the mid-20s. DR is not the huge concern for this PC that it is for two-weapon-fighters or finesse fighters: it doesn't remove nearly as large a fraction of his overall damage.
cycloptic_squirrel 04-05-07, 08:47 AM	OK, bearing in mind that a) I tend to do non-standard things just because the thought amuses me, b) I'd take your build and do silly things with the level advancements, and c) I have little real experience at high levels, here's what I would do. 1) Grab the scabbard. I might wait until there's a ruling on the MIC, but if it really becomes a swift action, it's a cheap way to magic up any weapon you favor at the moment. If you ever get access to a second, grab it and keep the cold iron falchion in it. 2) Depending on how often you see DR/silver, I might consider silvering your main weapon. When you need it, it'll save a round of magicing up your silvered weapon or silversheening your main weapon. The penalty on damage hurts, but it's overshadowed by your damage output. A quicksilver capsule + retainer is the ideal option, but not everyone sees access. 3) I'd get something interesting to carry in your hands while your primary weapon is in the scabbard. I'm thinking something +1 adamantine first, then upgrade it to spellstoring when you have some spare cash. If you run into golems, the sacred scabbard likely won't help and instead of the standard attack-drop-draw primary you can just launch into your dance. There's a few options as to the specific weapon/tactic. a) Battleaxe. Once you get spellstoring, just keep it in your main hand as you draw your primary weapon. First attack of the dance, use the battleaxe, release the spell, drop, continue with the falchion. If the enemy's at range and you're feeling silly, you can just throw the battleaxe at penalty in round 1 and launch into dance in round 2. b) Acidic Burst Falchion. The sacred scabbard won't be as useful for this weapon, but how often are you going to want a bless weapon when you're using adamantine? You're improved critical will still be useful here. c) Guisarme. I like this option best. It gives you a reach option, a trip option, and against things where you need adamantine, a larger threat range probably won't help you. If you use it for a battle it'd also give you an AoO if someone comes after you (or anyone near you). If you get more access and have oodles of cash, you could also throw mighty cleaving on it for the horde battles; the reach will allow you to position yourself to use those cleaves should you drop multiple creatures. 4) I would buy the special falchion. Then again, I'm a sucker for such things. Non-standard items are cool. Holy is useful. 5) Carry a standard quarterstaff and oil of shillelagh. It's cheap, innocuous, and a disposable five foot pole can be a useful component for many clever (read: hairbrained) schemes. Can't dance, but I'd think it very useful in spring attacking the (thankfully) rare rust monster.
UMiskatonic 04-05-07, 10:12 AM	My apologies. I've seen a number of dervishes, and they all insisted on making 18 attacks a round that did d6 +3 each. Yes, you can power attack your way through DR, and with a two handed holy falchion, you'll have no trouble doing just that. I'd take the scabbard. The ring of spell storing is also a great bonus. I know that you were looking at death ward as a defense, but there's a LOT of things that can be slowed down with a mirror image/resist energy/shield spell on tap.
Mommy was an Orc 04-05-07, 11:36 AM	Ah, I see - you're operating under an incorrect assumption. This is a two-handed power-attacking falchion-wielding dervish who started with Str 18 and is advancing Strength: he plays a lot like a THF barbarian except that he gets to full attack more and he gets his to-hit and damage bonuses from dervish dance instead of rage + charge. (And he takes a LOT less damage and thus consumes a lot less party resources in healing: otoh, he's rather more reluctant to stand in place to protect the squishies or provide flanking.) I'm doing something similar - actually pretty funny, I had decided I didn't like my first LG character much, but Improved Trip/Combat Acrobat/Swift Hunter/Improved Skirmish changed my mind. He's a Scout 4/Fighter 2/Ranger 1/Dervish 8 build. He doesn't Power Attack until 12th, but then again, he doesn't really need to do so. Best of all, due to retraining, I can maintain Search/Disable Device without it costing me an arm and a leg. Next level, he'll have Acrobatic Strike and hopefully his +4 belt, which will make PA'ing for full a better proposition I'm not clear on how that really helps you - you make one tumble check per opponent. You can only generate 1 AoO for any given action that is the same one. Unless you stop tumbling, he only gets to make an AoO against you on the 1st square that you leave, not all of them. That's +4 to hit for one attack. And mind you, a lot of DMs are going to react naturally to make the same decision if they haven't seen this before...
copper_wyrmling 04-05-07, 12:51 PM	I'm doing something similar - actually pretty funny, I had decided I didn't like my first LG character much, but Improved Trip/Combat Acrobat/Swift Hunter/Improved Skirmish changed my mind. He's a Scout 4/Fighter 2/Ranger 1/Dervish 8 build. He doesn't Power Attack until 12th, but then again, he doesn't really need to do so. When I was first building this PC, (a) it was in Year 4, and (b) my two non-negotiable points were that he had to be non-human (since all my other PCs at that stage were human) and he had to get all ten levels of dervish before retirement. That kinda eliminated Scout as an option, when the 595 rebuild came around ;) I also didn't want to play another two-weapon-fighter, since I was playing several in different campaigns at that stage. He's been pretty effective so far :) Best of all, due to retraining, I can maintain Search/Disable Device without it costing me an arm and a leg. Yeah, I'll probably be retraining some ranks into Survival and Spot next year. I have access to the lens of detection and eyes of the eagle, which means that retraining 4 ranks into each would give me +15 survival to follow tracks and +16 spot, which while not at specialist level, is good enough to be useful. I'm not clear on how that really helps you - you make one tumble check per opponent. You can only generate 1 AoO for any given action that is the same one. Unless you stop tumbling, he only gets to make an AoO against you on the 1st square that you leave, not all of them. But if I stopped tumbling for part of my movement (which the FAQ allows), he would get an AoO on me, yes? Thus by continuing tumbling, I am continuing to prevent AoOs. If GMs object, I can do stuff like creating and avoiding a separate opportunity by moving through their square (at least, I've generally seen that ruled as a separate opportunity before). That's +4 to hit for one attack. And mind you, a lot of DMs are going to react naturally to make the same decision if they haven't seen this before... For me, this is acceptable table variation (since most GMs I've talked to interpret the feat the same way I do, and even if they don't, +4 on the first attack against every opponent is not exactly bad), and I also think it's irrelevant to the actual topic of the thread. (Weren't you the one who complained about people bringing up tangentially related rules issues in your threads? ;) ) Keep it to advice on weapon upgrades, please :)
Drezden 04-05-07, 01:14 PM	Hey Tracy, I would buy the Death Ward armor enhancement ASAP. It will only cost 3,000 gp and you will get a lot of use out of it in Bissel/Sheldomar mods. Negative levels through undead creatures and enervation are quite common. I have also seen Fell Drain spells in Bissel mods too. Not to mention Save or Die, Ability Drain and other effects that require mid 20s and up Fort Saves that can be failed by even mutt BDF types. My BDF 12 bought it through Bissel access, and I have never regretted it. Holy is still probably worth it due to the extra 2d6 damage against all evil opponents - great for a primary weapon. The sacred scabbard would be great for a secondary (different material weapon). Maybe go +1 Holy Silver Falchion and then have a Masterwork Cold Iron Falchion in the scabbard. That would give you complete evil outsider coverage. Or you can avoid silver and rely on silversheen and avoid the -1 to damage. I think Undead Bane, Construct Bane (Adamantine) and Elemental Bane are all worth it. As you know (and we saw together), Constructs and Elementals are favorite mod writer opponents at higher APLs. Undead are just all over Bissel and the Sheldomar. The effective +11 to damage (+2 to hit converted to PA and +2d6) from Bane weapons are well worth the cost against common opponents. BTW - I really like Quick Draw as a feat for fighters with a few different specialized weapons. It doesn't sound glamorous, but my BDF has it and it is very effective. Daren
Lightblade 04-05-07, 04:53 PM	How much gold are you sitting on? Don't forget that Evard's sword has the little 20K "downpayment" before you even get to make a blade out of it. Thank heavens it's regional access. :) I had a pipe dream of buying the Bastard Sword version for Gimbo for use with Whirling Blade, (and Master's Touch for the proficency). Hmm, wonder if Master's Touch cares about the typical 13 str needed for EWP:Bastard sword, since i weigh in at, oh, less than half of that right now.
copper_wyrmling 04-05-07, 05:01 PM	How much gold are you sitting on? Right now? About 15k. Does anyone know how much Part V of RHOD gives? This is mostly forward planning, not something I'm going to put into practise immediately ;)
redgamer 04-05-07, 05:44 PM	I would go for Evards sword as well. Don't be afraid to ask for a special mission to add another +1 enhancement on it once you have the cash. It is possible to get favors that upgrade nonstandard weapons. This lets you add things like the ghost touch crsystal. In the near term I highly recomend borrowing your friends belt of strength. He has boots of haste to lend out too now. I wouldn't jump the gun sacred scabbard. It won't be updated soon and that standard action much easier to spend for non dervish fighters. I think death ward is better than fortification for your character but spend the favors on offense.
solbergb 04-05-07, 06:01 PM	Right now? About 15k. Does anyone know how much Part V of RHOD gives? This is mostly forward planning, not something I'm going to put into practise immediately ;) it's 16 TU at APL9, so that's like 4 apl8 adventures and 4 APL10 core adventures probably. I'd guestimate 14400gp from part 5.
dkay807 04-05-07, 06:39 PM	Hey Tracy, I would buy the Death Ward armor enhancement ASAP. It will only cost 3,000 gp and you will get a lot of use out of it in Bissel/Sheldomar mods. Negative levels through undead creatures and enervation are quite common. I have also seen Fell Drain spells in Bissel mods too. Not to mention Save or Die, Ability Drain and other effects that require mid 20s and up Fort Saves that can be failed by even mutt BDF types. My BDF 12 bought it through Bissel access, and I have never regretted it. Holy is still probably worth it due to the extra 2d6 damage against all evil opponents - great for a primary weapon. The sacred scabbard would be great for a secondary (different material weapon). Maybe go +1 Holy Silver Falchion and then have a Masterwork Cold Iron Falchion in the scabbard. That would give you complete evil outsider coverage. Or you can avoid silver and rely on silversheen and avoid the -1 to damage. I think Undead Bane, Construct Bane (Adamantine) and Elemental Bane are all worth it. As you know (and we saw together), Constructs and Elementals are favorite mod writer opponents at higher APLs. Undead are just all over Bissel and the Sheldomar. The effective +11 to damage (+2 to hit converted to PA and +2d6) from Bane weapons are well worth the cost against common opponents. BTW - I really like Quick Draw as a feat for fighters with a few different specialized weapons. It doesn't sound glamorous, but my BDF has it and it is very effective. Daren I'd just like to say that I agree with this post whole-heartedly. Death Ward is a win for any PC. With regards to weapon upgrades, Holy is always great and I am not a big fan of the various elemental enhancements. Vicious rules, but with the 12 con, I'm not sure it would be too great an idea for your PC. My PC has a 22 con (with a con boost item) and he still takes a good chunk of damage from Vicious (thanks to Whirling blade). Think of it this way... you have a solid PC that's never really going to have much of a problem with anything. Any weapon upgrade is really just icing... having said that, I'd say that the most valuable enhancement is Ghost Touch, maybe even Ghost Strike. Many people like to have a separate Ghost Touch weapon, but I think it's a good idea to slap it onto your main weapon... I'll leave the justification out of it. Apart from that... Bane upgrades are lots of fun. I always get excited when I fight something that my weapon does something extra against. Bane (elementals) is really nifty because fighting elementals is typically really boring... none of your other extra dice get used!
copper_wyrmling 04-05-07, 07:44 PM	I'd just like to say that I agree with this post whole-heartedly. Death Ward is a win for any PC. With regards to weapon upgrades, Holy is always great and I am not a big fan of the various elemental enhancements. Vicious rules, but with the 12 con, I'm not sure it would be too great an idea for your PC. My PC has a 22 con (with a con boost item) and he still takes a good chunk of damage from Vicious (thanks to Whirling blade). Vicious Whirling Blade? ROFL ;) Yeah, the reason I was considering Vicious was that dervish dance means I rarely have to soak full attacks, so I don't normally get injured that much... but on the other hand, that was also how I justified 12 Con on a frontliner, so adding another stress-factor on the damage-avoiding powers of dervish dance may not be the best idea. (And sometimes I do end my dance in full attack range, particularly if there's another fighter and he's having trouble hitting: sure, I can dance into flanks and then out to safety, but that doesn't help my flankbuddy.) I'm thinking that Vicious may only be worthwhile on either a self-healing PC or someone who can easily switch between weapons: it must be annoying to lose a full attack because continuing to hit with a vicious weapon was too risky. Think of it this way... you have a solid PC that's never really going to have much of a problem with anything. Any weapon upgrade is really just icing... having said that, I'd say that the most valuable enhancement is Ghost Touch, maybe even Ghost Strike. Many people like to have a separate Ghost Touch weapon, but I think it's a good idea to slap it onto your main weapon... I'll leave the justification out of it. I think I'll hold off on it for a bit - there might be a metaorg revision coming up with the changes to Open access, maybe I can lobby to get ghostblight capsules added to the army benefits (Perrenland gives ghostblight to its troops, and Bissel has a history of undead problems) ;) The truedeath crystals from the MIC also remove the need for ghost touch, and are rather cheaper if the weapon is already heavily enchanted. Apart from that... Bane upgrades are lots of fun. I always get excited when I fight something that my weapon does something extra against. Bane (elementals) is really nifty because fighting elementals is typically really boring... none of your other extra dice get used! Hehehe, true - and it would counteract that annoying DR 10/- (sure, I can power attack through it, but it's still annoying). To cycloptic: no way am I throwing an 8000gp spellstoring battleaxe at some monster :P I don't think I'll silver my main weapon, but your ideas on adamantine backups are definitely interesting - thanks.
solbergb 04-05-07, 09:53 PM	I'm pretty happy with vicious on Burke (someone who takes big wads of damage now and then because his armor class sucks, and barely notices the tiny amounts the weapon dishes out except when it chips away his hero feast hitpoints) I didn't use it on his "main attack" though (which is actually unarmed strike) but for his "single attack or AOO" weapon, his reach weapon. In that role, vicious is pretty great. The whole point of AOO's is to scare people away, and +2d6 energy that works on EVERYTHING tipped his damage from "hm, I'll just suck it up" to "I'm not sure if I wanna go near him" (and if they did, it translated into one less swing to dead generally, added up, vs not having the enchantment). With AOOs also you can get cute with trips or disarms or whatever when you don't want to take the extra damage. of course now that he just leveled and gained power attack, delay potion and is soon to add sacred to it..that just gets nicer.
Lightblade 04-05-07, 10:25 PM	Just one thing i forgot to point out before; if you do take a level of pally, have you considered the sword of zeal version at all? Really the only thing you'd care about is the autobreaking of outsiders' DR. It's not clear to me if the resulting weapon would still be Holy, though... still, if you went the Holy Avenger route, the greater dispel and SR would be worthless, since they rely on class levels. (The dispel explicitly does; you might run into table variation on the SR).
Mommy was an Orc 04-05-07, 11:38 PM	But if I stopped tumbling for part of my movement (which the FAQ allows), he would get an AoO on me, yes? Thus by continuing tumbling, I am continuing to prevent AoOs. If GMs object, I can do stuff like creating and avoiding a separate opportunity by moving through their square (at least, I've generally seen that ruled as a separate opportunity before). You're not allowed to make more than 1 AoO per given opportunity - someone moves around you in 8 squares, you only get the opportunity for an AoO on the 1st time he leaves a threatened square. Also, in a similar sense, an opponent can choose to ignore his AoOs regardless of interpretation - at which point, you don't get +4 because you're not avoiding AoOs. For me, this is acceptable table variation (since most GMs I've talked to interpret the feat the same way I do, and even if they don't, +4 on the first attack against every opponent is not exactly bad), and I also think it's irrelevant to the actual topic of the thread. (Weren't you the one who complained about people bringing up tangentially related rules issues in your threads? ;) ) Keep it to advice on weapon upgrades, please :) Not quite. They were getting into fights about things my character build wouldn't even have been capable of doing while not actually commenting on the build. Your character will be able to do Acrobatic Strike and it significantly affects the damage you do - I know this as you told us so :) i.e. when you're doing APL*10 damage, more damage is awesome. When you're doing APL*15-20 damage, it becomes more important to ensure that you always hit. Losing approximately 15% of your damage on table variation makes that a lot harder to pin down and is probably related to your uncertainty about what enhancement to pick(as some DMs you know did indicate they'd rule against it) Anyway, I think Daren's advice about Death Ward is a good one. I've tried to Enervate him before and he stopped me with that, basically ending the encounter. I'm not sure if you have access, but if you're thinking long-term about your weapon, it should be Starmetal, not Adamantine. A Starmetal Sacred/Holy Weapon can pretty much bypass DR on almost anything - Good, Adamantine, and you even do an extra d6 to elementals. That 2K eventually ends up being the cheapest 'enhancement' in the game.