What's the deal with Dragon Disciple? [Archive] - Wizards Community

What's the deal with Dragon Disciple? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rerednaw
03-13-07, 03:52 PM Are most people playing a flavor build? I prefer the Dragonfire Adept or the Dragonshaman to the Dragon Disciple (sigh both LG restricted)

It is a lot of work to get into Draggy Disciple. What do you get out of it? (Aside from the dragon flavor)
LachlarlanIII
03-13-07, 03:55 PM Are most people playing a flavor build? I prefer the Dragonfire Adept or the Dragonshaman to the Dragon Disciple (sigh both LG restricted)

It's a great class for powergamers and flavor seekers both.

It is a lot of work to get into Draggy Disciple. What do you get out of it? (Aside from the dragon flavor)

Are you kidding? Dragon Disciple is one of the easiest PrCs for which to qualify.

It only requires Knowledge (Arcana) 8 Ranks, ability to cast arcane spells spontaneously, and the ability to speak Draconic.

Any character with a decent intelligence score (Int 10) can qualify for it by 5th level by taking one level of Warmage, Beguiler, Bard, or Sorcerer at 1st level, or by taking 4 levels of Hexblade.
Alpha_Nerd
03-13-07, 04:09 PM My Master Thrower is taking it because Guided Shot is ridiculous for him and I want to be able to do it 7 times per day without losing much martial prowess.
Mommy was an Orc
03-13-07, 04:52 PM Also, Dragon Disciple is one of the easier ways to pick up a Claw/Claw/Bite/Monk Flurry routine...
DroidTrooper
03-13-07, 06:31 PM What do you get out it:

For 2 levels:

+2 Str, +1 AC, +3 attacks per round, +3 fort, +3 will, 2d12 HP

That blows most fighter type classes out of the water in my opinion. After 2 levels it starts to drop of power quite a bit, but a 4 level dip is still well above the power curve in my opinion. After level 4, your probably in it for the long haul, but the half dragon template certainly isn't bad.

If you are in a region were dragons are more common I can see it for role playing as well. But it is certainly a powerful class.

I particularlly liked the Bard4/X1 starting point especially when Alterself was still around as bards have a number of good 2nd level spells. And moral boosts stack well with many bonus to attacks.
Mithreinmaethor
03-13-07, 06:38 PM Also, Dragon Disciple is one of the easier ways to pick up a Claw/Claw/Bite/Monk Flurry routine...

Yeah with a -5 to all the secondary attacks and add on another -2 for flurry. Nothing like a -7 to hit with the majority of your attacks. Even with the Multiattack feat you are at -2 for all secondary attacks + -2 for flurry = -4.
Jay_Ibero_911
03-13-07, 06:49 PM Yeah with a -5 to all the secondary attacks and add on another -2 for flurry. Nothing like a -7 to hit with the majority of your attacks. Even with the Multiattack feat you are at -2 for all secondary attacks + -2 for flurry = -4.

You are missing the point. You only take the -5 to the natural attacks, not all your attacks. So it's a free extra attack that has no impact on your normal attack routine. And now you are allowed to take multi-attack, reducing it to a -2 penalty.
Mommy was an Orc
03-13-07, 07:22 PM You are missing the point. You only take the -5 to the natural attacks, not all your attacks. So it's a free extra attack that has no impact on your normal attack routine. And now you are allowed to take multi-attack, reducing it to a -2 penalty.

Not to mention, more importantly, a -7 penalty to touch attacks isn't that huge of a deal...
Jay_Ibero_911
03-13-07, 07:26 PM Not to mention, more importantly, a -7 penalty to touch attacks isn't that huge of a deal...

Wait...why touch attacks?
Mommy was an Orc
03-13-07, 07:33 PM Wait...why touch attacks?

You're allowed to use natural attacks to deliver touch attacks. Grapples, touch spells, trips, etc...need a caster level to get into this PrC and Chill Touch gives you a lot of touches...
Hariman
03-14-07, 01:39 AM Maybe, just maybe, there's someone out there with a barbarian half orc dragon disciple with power attack.

At a minimum, Charisma and probably wisdom will be dump stats.

40 strength at 15th level. You'll start this character with 20 STR, 24 with rage. Level 7 = 26
Level 8 = 28
Level 9 = 30
Level 15 = 34
Level 16 = 36 (High level option baby!)

And in Gauntlets of Ogre Power and the Belts, and you go to +15 to attack and damage (+22 to damage for two handed weapons).

The only flaw is that you lose spellcasting, and ability damage against your mental stats will be a killer, but who cares when your base damage for a greataxe is 1d12+22?

And keep in mind, that's BEFORE buffing. Dragon Disciple is Tempting for me, as I might be starting a Hexblade soon. But I'm a sucker for Hound of Doom and the other Hexblade spells.
Jay_Ibero_911
03-14-07, 01:19 PM Maybe, just maybe, there's someone out there with a barbarian half orc dragon disciple with power attack.

At a minimum, Charisma and probably wisdom will be dump stats.

40 strength at 15th level. You'll start this character with 20 STR, 24 with rage. Level 7 = 26
Level 8 = 28
Level 9 = 30
Level 15 = 34
Level 16 = 36 (High level option baby!)

And in Gauntlets of Ogre Power and the Belts, and you go to +15 to attack and damage (+22 to damage for two handed weapons).

The only flaw is that you lose spellcasting, and ability damage against your mental stats will be a killer, but who cares when your base damage for a greataxe is 1d12+22?

And keep in mind, that's BEFORE buffing. Dragon Disciple is Tempting for me, as I might be starting a Hexblade soon. But I'm a sucker for Hound of Doom and the other Hexblade spells.

You'll need at least 10 INT or CHA to qualify for Dragon Disciple...
CrystalBlue
03-14-07, 01:26 PM Yeah, my build that I decided on way back when was going to be a straight flavor build...but now I'm debating.

Monk Dragon D's sound hella powerful, and if I could make one into a grapple monkey. :D

My other build (suggested by others here) was going to be a Paladin/Bard/Marshal of Bahamut...then go DD. I was going to specilize in tripping...cause it's fun. Weeeee! X3
LachlarlanIII
03-14-07, 01:45 PM Maybe, just maybe, there's someone out there with a barbarian half orc dragon disciple with power attack.

At a minimum, Charisma and probably wisdom will be dump stats.

40 strength at 15th level. You'll start this character with 20 STR, 24 with rage. Level 7 = 26
Level 8 = 28
Level 9 = 30
Level 15 = 34
Level 16 = 36 (High level option baby!)

And in Gauntlets of Ogre Power and the Belts, and you go to +15 to attack and damage (+22 to damage for two handed weapons).

The only flaw is that you lose spellcasting, and ability damage against your mental stats will be a killer, but who cares when your base damage for a greataxe is 1d12+22?

And keep in mind, that's BEFORE buffing. Dragon Disciple is Tempting for me, as I might be starting a Hexblade soon. But I'm a sucker for Hound of Doom and the other Hexblade spells.

You're forgetting Reckless Rage. 42 Str.

Oh, and the Rage spell. 44 Str.
Reylance
03-14-07, 04:34 PM A Bbn-Sor-Bbn-Rgr-Rgr level setup gives a 6 Int character enough skill points to make dragon disciple... with two to spare. You will be useless outside of combat, though.

20 Str + 4 bumps + 6 belt + 6 reckless rage + 8 Dragon Disciple = 44 Str at 16th level. Rawr.
Rerednaw
03-14-07, 04:40 PM Maybe, just maybe, there's someone out there with a barbarian half orc dragon disciple with power attack.

At a minimum, Charisma and probably wisdom will be dump stats.

40 strength at 15th level. You'll start this character with 20 STR, 24 with rage. Level 7 = 26
Level 8 = 28
Level 9 = 30
Level 15 = 34
Level 16 = 36 (High level option baby!)...
And keep in mind, that's BEFORE buffing...

Eh? DD gets +2 Str at DD2 and DD4, where is all this other strength coming from?

And since it is an inherent bonus, doesn't it cap at +5 (including level bumps) anyway?
LachlarlanIII
03-14-07, 04:59 PM [/SIZE]

Eh? DD gets +2 Str at DD2 and DD4, where is all this other strength coming from?

And since it is an inherent bonus, doesn't it cap at +5 (including level bumps) anyway?

You are correct. Inherent bonuses cap at +5.

However, the boosts gained at every 4th level aren't Inherent, in fact, they're unnamed bumps to the base ability score.

Also, Dragon Disciple grants +2 Str boosts at 2nd and 4th, and an additional +4 at 10th. These boosts are also unnamed.
Hand_OF_Mystra
03-14-07, 06:02 PM You're allowed to use natural attacks to deliver touch attacks. Grapples, touch spells, trips, etc...need a caster level to get into this PrC and Chill Touch gives you a lot of touches...
Can you use unarmed strikes to deliver touch spells too? I could not find it in the FAQ? So you could take a level of monk and a level of sorcerer, a spellcraft of 4 and knowledge (arcana) of 8, Practiced Spellcaster and two levels of Dragon Disciple and be getting 5 attacks per full round with Chill Touch?
Timlagor
03-14-07, 08:46 PM Can you use unarmed strikes to deliver touch spells too? I could not find it in the FAQ? So you could take a level of monk and a level of sorcerer, a spellcraft of 4 and knowledge (arcana) of 8, Practiced Spellcaster and two levels of Dragon Disciple and be getting 5 attacks per full round with Chill Touch?

Yes.

The do need at least 10 Int or Cha for the spontaneous casting requirement.

And in Gauntlets of Ogre Power and the Belts, and you go to +15 to attack and damage (+22 to damage for two handed weapons).
Just in case you've got the wrong idea: the Gauntlets and Belt do not stack.
Rerednaw
03-15-07, 09:47 AM You are correct. Inherent bonuses cap at +5.

However, the boosts gained at every 4th level aren't Inherent, in fact, they're unnamed bumps to the base ability score.

Also, Dragon Disciple grants +2 Str boosts at 2nd and 4th, and an additional +4 at 10th. These boosts are also unnamed.

Eh? I seem to remember an errata somewhere. Because the PHB specifically states that the +1 every 4 levels is an inherent bonus. Could you tell me which errata (or FAQ?) it is from in case I get asked by a DM?
Alpha_Nerd
03-15-07, 09:56 AM So, are Dragon Disciple like airline food? Because seriously, what's the deal with airline food?
Efekjek
03-15-07, 10:11 AM So, are Dragon Disciple like airline food? Because seriously, what's the deal with airline food?

hahahaha, i've been thinking that every time i see the thread title
Bold
03-15-07, 11:38 AM [/SIZE]
Because the PHB specifically states that the +1 every 4 levels is an inherent bonus. Could you tell me which errata (or FAQ?) it is from in case I get asked by a DM?

Could you quote the PHB where it calls those bumps "inherent bonuses"? I just did a search of an electronic copy of my PHB, and the only places it refers to "inherent" ability bonuses is in reference to magical alterations, not level-based ability bumps:

inherent bonus: A bonus to an ability score resulting from powerful magic, such as a wish. Inherent bonuses cannot be dispelled. A character is limited to a total inherent bonus of +5 to any ability score. Multiple inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.
p.309

and:

Some rare magic items can boost an ability score permanently, as can a wish spell. Such an increase is called an inherent bonus. An ability score can’t have an inherent bonus of more than +5.
p.10

and:

Wish
Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.
p. 302

In contrast, on page 10 in the discussion about abilities, it mentions the bumps achieved at 4th level and beyond in a completely separate bullet point from the entry for inherent bonuses:

Add 1 point to any score upon attaining 4th level and at every fourth level your character attains thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level).
p. 10
Hariman
03-15-07, 10:39 PM You'll need at least 10 INT or CHA to qualify for Dragon Disciple...

Oops, I meant Intelligence/Wisdom.

A Bbn-Sor-Bbn-Rgr-Rgr level setup gives a 6 Int character enough skill points to make dragon disciple... with two to spare. You will be useless outside of combat, though.

20 Str + 4 bumps + 6 belt + 6 reckless rage + 8 Dragon Disciple = 44 Str at 16th level. Rawr.

You're right about that. Toss in "Enlarge Person", and you go to 46 STR.

Just in case you've got the wrong idea: the Gauntlets and Belt do not stack.

Oh no. No stacking enhancement bonuses for me. Those totals are assuming that the +6 belt is added last. (I should have just stated "the +6 Belt")

The ultimate problem with this build is that your character's AC will be mediocre, at best. (Unless you spend much of your money on AC boosters.) Your Roleplaying potential will be DISMAL. ("Me not know why, but me think this bad idea.") And, if you do use barbarian for that extra +6, you'll lose any semblance on in combat casting when you rage.

But getting a 8d4+128 crit (+5 enhancement, 46 STR, with a scythe) would so kick ass. You'd need Keen just for the extra chance of getting a crit.
LachlarlanIII
03-16-07, 10:58 AM The ultimate problem with this build is that your character's AC will be mediocre, at best. (Unless you spend much of your money on AC boosters.) Your Roleplaying potential will be DISMAL. ("Me not know why, but me think this bad idea.") And, if you do use barbarian for that extra +6, you'll lose any semblance on in combat casting when you rage.

But getting a 8d4+128 crit (+5 enhancement, 46 STR, with a scythe) would so kick ass. You'd need Keen just for the extra chance of getting a crit.

Going the Beguiler route you could dump Cha and play an intelligent, though somewhat timid (really strong but doesn't know his own strength and hates fighting) barbarian/dragon disciple.

I personally prefer the Mercurial Greatsword (metaOrg access). 8d6 damage or 12d6 while enlarged.
Jay_Ibero_911
03-16-07, 11:34 AM Going the Beguiler route you could dump Cha and play an intelligent, though somewhat timid (really strong but doesn't know his own strength and hates fighting) barbarian/dragon disciple.

I personally prefer the Mercurial Greatsword (metaOrg access). 8d6 damage or 12d6 while enlarged.

Goliath Greathammer does similar damage, d12x4...and same damage enlarged, 12d6. And it's open access.
solbergb
03-16-07, 12:06 PM Are most people playing a flavor build? I prefer the Dragonfire Adept or the Dragonshaman to the Dragon Disciple (sigh both LG restricted)

It is a lot of work to get into Draggy Disciple. What do you get out of it? (Aside from the dragon flavor)

It's allowed (unlike the other two you mention) without campaign documentation. So it is the default way to build a melee draconic character as opposed to a primary caster draconic character.

It trades BAB for really high attributes, much like a centaur, without having to be a centaur. You also get a couple other nice things (blindsense on a melee is very nice. A breath weapon never hurts for the odd swarm encounter)

Some builds like attributes more than BAB.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rerednaw 03-13-07, 03:52 PM	Are most people playing a flavor build? I prefer the Dragonfire Adept or the Dragonshaman to the Dragon Disciple (sigh both LG restricted) It is a lot of work to get into Draggy Disciple. What do you get out of it? (Aside from the dragon flavor)
LachlarlanIII 03-13-07, 03:55 PM	Are most people playing a flavor build? I prefer the Dragonfire Adept or the Dragonshaman to the Dragon Disciple (sigh both LG restricted) It's a great class for powergamers and flavor seekers both. It is a lot of work to get into Draggy Disciple. What do you get out of it? (Aside from the dragon flavor) Are you kidding? Dragon Disciple is one of the easiest PrCs for which to qualify. It only requires Knowledge (Arcana) 8 Ranks, ability to cast arcane spells spontaneously, and the ability to speak Draconic. Any character with a decent intelligence score (Int 10) can qualify for it by 5th level by taking one level of Warmage, Beguiler, Bard, or Sorcerer at 1st level, or by taking 4 levels of Hexblade.
Alpha_Nerd 03-13-07, 04:09 PM	My Master Thrower is taking it because Guided Shot is ridiculous for him and I want to be able to do it 7 times per day without losing much martial prowess.
Mommy was an Orc 03-13-07, 04:52 PM	Also, Dragon Disciple is one of the easier ways to pick up a Claw/Claw/Bite/Monk Flurry routine...
DroidTrooper 03-13-07, 06:31 PM	What do you get out it: For 2 levels: +2 Str, +1 AC, +3 attacks per round, +3 fort, +3 will, 2d12 HP That blows most fighter type classes out of the water in my opinion. After 2 levels it starts to drop of power quite a bit, but a 4 level dip is still well above the power curve in my opinion. After level 4, your probably in it for the long haul, but the half dragon template certainly isn't bad. If you are in a region were dragons are more common I can see it for role playing as well. But it is certainly a powerful class. I particularlly liked the Bard4/X1 starting point especially when Alterself was still around as bards have a number of good 2nd level spells. And moral boosts stack well with many bonus to attacks.
Mithreinmaethor 03-13-07, 06:38 PM	Also, Dragon Disciple is one of the easier ways to pick up a Claw/Claw/Bite/Monk Flurry routine... Yeah with a -5 to all the secondary attacks and add on another -2 for flurry. Nothing like a -7 to hit with the majority of your attacks. Even with the Multiattack feat you are at -2 for all secondary attacks + -2 for flurry = -4.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-13-07, 06:49 PM	Yeah with a -5 to all the secondary attacks and add on another -2 for flurry. Nothing like a -7 to hit with the majority of your attacks. Even with the Multiattack feat you are at -2 for all secondary attacks + -2 for flurry = -4. You are missing the point. You only take the -5 to the natural attacks, not all your attacks. So it's a free extra attack that has no impact on your normal attack routine. And now you are allowed to take multi-attack, reducing it to a -2 penalty.
Mommy was an Orc 03-13-07, 07:22 PM	You are missing the point. You only take the -5 to the natural attacks, not all your attacks. So it's a free extra attack that has no impact on your normal attack routine. And now you are allowed to take multi-attack, reducing it to a -2 penalty. Not to mention, more importantly, a -7 penalty to touch attacks isn't that huge of a deal...
Jay_Ibero_911 03-13-07, 07:26 PM	Not to mention, more importantly, a -7 penalty to touch attacks isn't that huge of a deal... Wait...why touch attacks?
Mommy was an Orc 03-13-07, 07:33 PM	Wait...why touch attacks? You're allowed to use natural attacks to deliver touch attacks. Grapples, touch spells, trips, etc...need a caster level to get into this PrC and Chill Touch gives you a lot of touches...
Hariman 03-14-07, 01:39 AM	Maybe, just maybe, there's someone out there with a barbarian half orc dragon disciple with power attack. At a minimum, Charisma and probably wisdom will be dump stats. 40 strength at 15th level. You'll start this character with 20 STR, 24 with rage. Level 7 = 26 Level 8 = 28 Level 9 = 30 Level 15 = 34 Level 16 = 36 (High level option baby!) And in Gauntlets of Ogre Power and the Belts, and you go to +15 to attack and damage (+22 to damage for two handed weapons). The only flaw is that you lose spellcasting, and ability damage against your mental stats will be a killer, but who cares when your base damage for a greataxe is 1d12+22? And keep in mind, that's BEFORE buffing. Dragon Disciple is Tempting for me, as I might be starting a Hexblade soon. But I'm a sucker for Hound of Doom and the other Hexblade spells.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-14-07, 01:19 PM	Maybe, just maybe, there's someone out there with a barbarian half orc dragon disciple with power attack. At a minimum, Charisma and probably wisdom will be dump stats. 40 strength at 15th level. You'll start this character with 20 STR, 24 with rage. Level 7 = 26 Level 8 = 28 Level 9 = 30 Level 15 = 34 Level 16 = 36 (High level option baby!) And in Gauntlets of Ogre Power and the Belts, and you go to +15 to attack and damage (+22 to damage for two handed weapons). The only flaw is that you lose spellcasting, and ability damage against your mental stats will be a killer, but who cares when your base damage for a greataxe is 1d12+22? And keep in mind, that's BEFORE buffing. Dragon Disciple is Tempting for me, as I might be starting a Hexblade soon. But I'm a sucker for Hound of Doom and the other Hexblade spells. You'll need at least 10 INT or CHA to qualify for Dragon Disciple...
CrystalBlue 03-14-07, 01:26 PM	Yeah, my build that I decided on way back when was going to be a straight flavor build...but now I'm debating. Monk Dragon D's sound hella powerful, and if I could make one into a grapple monkey. :D My other build (suggested by others here) was going to be a Paladin/Bard/Marshal of Bahamut...then go DD. I was going to specilize in tripping...cause it's fun. Weeeee! X3
LachlarlanIII 03-14-07, 01:45 PM	Maybe, just maybe, there's someone out there with a barbarian half orc dragon disciple with power attack. At a minimum, Charisma and probably wisdom will be dump stats. 40 strength at 15th level. You'll start this character with 20 STR, 24 with rage. Level 7 = 26 Level 8 = 28 Level 9 = 30 Level 15 = 34 Level 16 = 36 (High level option baby!) And in Gauntlets of Ogre Power and the Belts, and you go to +15 to attack and damage (+22 to damage for two handed weapons). The only flaw is that you lose spellcasting, and ability damage against your mental stats will be a killer, but who cares when your base damage for a greataxe is 1d12+22? And keep in mind, that's BEFORE buffing. Dragon Disciple is Tempting for me, as I might be starting a Hexblade soon. But I'm a sucker for Hound of Doom and the other Hexblade spells. You're forgetting Reckless Rage. 42 Str. Oh, and the Rage spell. 44 Str.
Reylance 03-14-07, 04:34 PM	A Bbn-Sor-Bbn-Rgr-Rgr level setup gives a 6 Int character enough skill points to make dragon disciple... with two to spare. You will be useless outside of combat, though. 20 Str + 4 bumps + 6 belt + 6 reckless rage + 8 Dragon Disciple = 44 Str at 16th level. Rawr.
Rerednaw 03-14-07, 04:40 PM	Maybe, just maybe, there's someone out there with a barbarian half orc dragon disciple with power attack. At a minimum, Charisma and probably wisdom will be dump stats. 40 strength at 15th level. You'll start this character with 20 STR, 24 with rage. Level 7 = 26 Level 8 = 28 Level 9 = 30 Level 15 = 34 Level 16 = 36 (High level option baby!)... And keep in mind, that's BEFORE buffing... Eh? DD gets +2 Str at DD2 and DD4, where is all this other strength coming from? And since it is an inherent bonus, doesn't it cap at +5 (including level bumps) anyway?
LachlarlanIII 03-14-07, 04:59 PM	[/SIZE] Eh? DD gets +2 Str at DD2 and DD4, where is all this other strength coming from? And since it is an inherent bonus, doesn't it cap at +5 (including level bumps) anyway? You are correct. Inherent bonuses cap at +5. However, the boosts gained at every 4th level aren't Inherent, in fact, they're unnamed bumps to the base ability score. Also, Dragon Disciple grants +2 Str boosts at 2nd and 4th, and an additional +4 at 10th. These boosts are also unnamed.
Hand_OF_Mystra 03-14-07, 06:02 PM	You're allowed to use natural attacks to deliver touch attacks. Grapples, touch spells, trips, etc...need a caster level to get into this PrC and Chill Touch gives you a lot of touches... Can you use unarmed strikes to deliver touch spells too? I could not find it in the FAQ? So you could take a level of monk and a level of sorcerer, a spellcraft of 4 and knowledge (arcana) of 8, Practiced Spellcaster and two levels of Dragon Disciple and be getting 5 attacks per full round with Chill Touch?
Timlagor 03-14-07, 08:46 PM	Can you use unarmed strikes to deliver touch spells too? I could not find it in the FAQ? So you could take a level of monk and a level of sorcerer, a spellcraft of 4 and knowledge (arcana) of 8, Practiced Spellcaster and two levels of Dragon Disciple and be getting 5 attacks per full round with Chill Touch? Yes. The do need at least 10 Int or Cha for the spontaneous casting requirement. And in Gauntlets of Ogre Power and the Belts, and you go to +15 to attack and damage (+22 to damage for two handed weapons). Just in case you've got the wrong idea: the Gauntlets and Belt do not stack.
Rerednaw 03-15-07, 09:47 AM	You are correct. Inherent bonuses cap at +5. However, the boosts gained at every 4th level aren't Inherent, in fact, they're unnamed bumps to the base ability score. Also, Dragon Disciple grants +2 Str boosts at 2nd and 4th, and an additional +4 at 10th. These boosts are also unnamed. Eh? I seem to remember an errata somewhere. Because the PHB specifically states that the +1 every 4 levels is an inherent bonus. Could you tell me which errata (or FAQ?) it is from in case I get asked by a DM?
Alpha_Nerd 03-15-07, 09:56 AM	So, are Dragon Disciple like airline food? Because seriously, what's the deal with airline food?
Efekjek 03-15-07, 10:11 AM	So, are Dragon Disciple like airline food? Because seriously, what's the deal with airline food? hahahaha, i've been thinking that every time i see the thread title
Bold 03-15-07, 11:38 AM	[/SIZE] Because the PHB specifically states that the +1 every 4 levels is an inherent bonus. Could you tell me which errata (or FAQ?) it is from in case I get asked by a DM? Could you quote the PHB where it calls those bumps "inherent bonuses"? I just did a search of an electronic copy of my PHB, and the only places it refers to "inherent" ability bonuses is in reference to magical alterations, not level-based ability bumps: inherent bonus: A bonus to an ability score resulting from powerful magic, such as a wish. Inherent bonuses cannot be dispelled. A character is limited to a total inherent bonus of +5 to any ability score. Multiple inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies. p.309 and: Some rare magic items can boost an ability score permanently, as can a wish spell. Such an increase is called an inherent bonus. An ability score can’t have an inherent bonus of more than +5. p.10 and: Wish Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies. p. 302 In contrast, on page 10 in the discussion about abilities, it mentions the bumps achieved at 4th level and beyond in a completely separate bullet point from the entry for inherent bonuses: Add 1 point to any score upon attaining 4th level and at every fourth level your character attains thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level). p. 10
Hariman 03-15-07, 10:39 PM	You'll need at least 10 INT or CHA to qualify for Dragon Disciple... Oops, I meant Intelligence/Wisdom. A Bbn-Sor-Bbn-Rgr-Rgr level setup gives a 6 Int character enough skill points to make dragon disciple... with two to spare. You will be useless outside of combat, though. 20 Str + 4 bumps + 6 belt + 6 reckless rage + 8 Dragon Disciple = 44 Str at 16th level. Rawr. You're right about that. Toss in "Enlarge Person", and you go to 46 STR. Just in case you've got the wrong idea: the Gauntlets and Belt do not stack. Oh no. No stacking enhancement bonuses for me. Those totals are assuming that the +6 belt is added last. (I should have just stated "the +6 Belt") The ultimate problem with this build is that your character's AC will be mediocre, at best. (Unless you spend much of your money on AC boosters.) Your Roleplaying potential will be DISMAL. ("Me not know why, but me think this bad idea.") And, if you do use barbarian for that extra +6, you'll lose any semblance on in combat casting when you rage. But getting a 8d4+128 crit (+5 enhancement, 46 STR, with a scythe) would so kick ass. You'd need Keen just for the extra chance of getting a crit.
LachlarlanIII 03-16-07, 10:58 AM	The ultimate problem with this build is that your character's AC will be mediocre, at best. (Unless you spend much of your money on AC boosters.) Your Roleplaying potential will be DISMAL. ("Me not know why, but me think this bad idea.") And, if you do use barbarian for that extra +6, you'll lose any semblance on in combat casting when you rage. But getting a 8d4+128 crit (+5 enhancement, 46 STR, with a scythe) would so kick ass. You'd need Keen just for the extra chance of getting a crit. Going the Beguiler route you could dump Cha and play an intelligent, though somewhat timid (really strong but doesn't know his own strength and hates fighting) barbarian/dragon disciple. I personally prefer the Mercurial Greatsword (metaOrg access). 8d6 damage or 12d6 while enlarged.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-16-07, 11:34 AM	Going the Beguiler route you could dump Cha and play an intelligent, though somewhat timid (really strong but doesn't know his own strength and hates fighting) barbarian/dragon disciple. I personally prefer the Mercurial Greatsword (metaOrg access). 8d6 damage or 12d6 while enlarged. Goliath Greathammer does similar damage, d12x4...and same damage enlarged, 12d6. And it's open access.
solbergb 03-16-07, 12:06 PM	Are most people playing a flavor build? I prefer the Dragonfire Adept or the Dragonshaman to the Dragon Disciple (sigh both LG restricted) It is a lot of work to get into Draggy Disciple. What do you get out of it? (Aside from the dragon flavor) It's allowed (unlike the other two you mention) without campaign documentation. So it is the default way to build a melee draconic character as opposed to a primary caster draconic character. It trades BAB for really high attributes, much like a centaur, without having to be a centaur. You also get a couple other nice things (blindsense on a melee is very nice. A breath weapon never hurts for the odd swarm encounter) Some builds like attributes more than BAB.