Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jhorred 01-17-07, 12:56 AM	My fighter... Began Half-orc S20,D10,C12,I10,W10,C6 1 Fighter, Power Attack, WF: Greatsword 2 Fighter, Cleave 3 Fighter, Brutal Throw 4 Fighter, Heavy Armor Optimization 5 Fighter 6 Fighter, Power Throw, WS: Greatsword 7 Fighter 8 Fighter, Greater Heavy Armor Optimization 9 Fighter, Improved Critical 10 Fighter, Quickdraw 11 Fighter 12 Fighter, WF Javelin, WS Javelin 13 Fighter 14 Fighter Shield Specialization 15 Fighter >undecided< Currently Fighter 13 S26,D12,C14,I10,W10,C6 (with stat boost items) and AC30
_m_ 01-17-07, 01:23 AM	what do you mean whats wrong with it? its not optomised, but that dosent make it 'wrong', for all i know its the most fun, most well thought out roleplay concept character ever to exist. what do you define as wrong? one could use better feats imo, and straight fighter may not be the best way to go. do you mean wrong as in, not as good as another potential build, or wrong as in legally impossible, or wrong as in not totally optimised within itself, or wrong as in not optomised when compared with feats and stats... could you be more specific?
clannagh 01-17-07, 01:34 AM	what do you mean whats wrong with it? its not optomised, but that dosent make it 'wrong', for all i know its the most fun, most well thought out roleplay concept character ever to exist. what do you define as wrong? one could use better feats imo, and straight fighter may not be the best way to go. do you mean wrong as in, not as good as another potential build, or wrong as in legally impossible, or wrong as in not totally optimised within itself, or wrong as in not optomised when compared with feats and stats... could you be more specific? I be thinkin' he is saying something like "here is a build thats all fighter with no dips which is still effective and useful in combat at level 15"
jstorrie 01-17-07, 03:18 PM	1. Cleave 2. Heavy Armor Optimization 3. Greater Heavy Armor Optimization 4. WF/WS Javelin 5. Shield Specialization (on a character that uses a Greatsword in melee?) 6. 20 Str to start, when 18 Str would have freed up points for Dex & Con Not that I am saying this character is 'bad'; it probably does just fine on the table, but there are build choices that I'd consider unwise.
jhorred 01-18-07, 12:31 AM	1. Cleave 2. Heavy Armor Optimization 3. Greater Heavy Armor Optimization 4. WF/WS Javelin 5. Shield Specialization (on a character that uses a Greatsword in melee?) 6. 20 Str to start, when 18 Str would have freed up points for Dex & Con Not that I am saying this character is 'bad'; it probably does just fine on the table, but there are build choices that I'd consider unwise. Animated shields rock....
jstorrie 01-18-07, 03:01 PM	Animated shields do rock, but blowing feat slots for a mere +1 AC each?
jhorred 01-18-07, 11:31 PM	my choice.... The armor feats are more useful than the shield feat as they also reduce his ACP too. If you think that most of my feat selections are poor, what would you put in their place?
The_Grey_Ranger 01-18-07, 11:44 PM	I'd consider close quarters fighting for a melee build. One "weakness" of the AC feats will be they won't help your touch AC. While being able to smack the grappler for 50+ points makes you much more resistant to being grabbed. Overall your build will work all right but three feats is kinda heavy for +3 to AC. It's a lot easier to raise AC by magic than by feat. Consider throwing in a level of Barb and extra rage. The extra strength and bonus to your will save will help in a lot of situations. With mithral plate you could keep your move bonus and an extra 10 feet (20 on a charge) is never a bad thing. Also with that many levels of fighter its kinda odd not to take greater weapon focus and greater weapon spec.
jstorrie 01-19-07, 01:59 AM	If I was doing half-orc Fighter 15 with those stats? You're in the Pale, right? I might consider taking Born Follower at first level, but ignoring that for the moment - 1 Weapon Focus: Morningstar, Power Attack 2 Improved Shield Bash 3 Shield Charge 4 Improved Bull Rush 6 Shock Trooper, Shield Slam 8 Cleave 9 Three Mountains Style 10 Weapon Specialization 12 Improved Sunder, Combat Brute 14 Close-Quarters Fighting 15 Iron Will Not having 13 Int, Dex, or Wis really cuts out a lot of good options. I'm assuming you'd have to actually play through the low levels when you don't have animated shield access, here. If you spend your feats wisely, instead of +3AC and unimportant ranged ability you instead get tactical versatility. If you need something killed fast, Shock Trooper/Combat Brute obviously does that. If you need something corked up, you can instead shield charge it (triggering a trip and a daze) and start beating it sick with Three Mountains.
JamesMaissen 01-19-07, 11:44 AM	My fighter... Began Half-orc S20,D10,C12,I10,W10,C6 Well if you're looking for criticism I'd start with a CON of 12. I would definately trade in the 10 INT for a higher CON. Feat choices, as mentioned by others, could be better. I think some are there merely because you had the feat, while I think subsequent fighter levels should only be taken when there's a feat you want for it. -James
jhorred 01-19-07, 10:00 PM	I'd consider close quarters fighting for a melee build. One "weakness" of the AC feats will be they won't help your touch AC. While being able to smack the grappler for 50+ points makes you much more resistant to being grabbed. Overall your build will work all right but three feats is kinda heavy for +3 to AC. It's a lot easier to raise AC by magic than by feat. But costly in gp. I've done that as well and I will continue to concentrate on as he continues adventuring. I currently have a 30 AC with 35 being fairly easy to achieve with the help of the shield feat. I just have play enough to get the gp to do it. I have the access to get about a 34 right now. Consider throwing in a level of Barb and extra rage. The extra strength and bonus to your will save will help in a lot of situations. With mithral plate you could keep your move bonus and an extra 10 feet (20 on a charge) is never a bad thing. Also with that many levels of fighter its kinda odd not to take greater weapon focus and greater weapon spec. A friend in the local group here suggested the same thing, but I decided that rage did not fit the characters personality. Also the Armor Feats do not work with Mithral Full Plate as it is Medium Armor. With my 12th level feats I debated the GWF & GWS feats for my greatsword, but I had been experimenting with javelins and quickdraw and found them to be relatively effective. I chose the WF & WS Javelin instead to become more well rounded and to become less of a one trick pony. (In this case, hit them with one of my Greatswords.) If I was doing half-orc Fighter 15 with those stats? You're in the Pale, right? I might consider taking Born Follower at first level, but ignoring that for the moment - 1 Weapon Focus: Morningstar, Power Attack 2 Improved Shield Bash 3 Shield Charge 4 Improved Bull Rush 6 Shock Trooper, Shield Slam 8 Cleave 9 Three Mountains Style 10 Weapon Specialization 12 Improved Sunder, Combat Brute 14 Close-Quarters Fighting 15 Iron Will Not having 13 Int, Dex, or Wis really cuts out a lot of good options. I'm assuming you'd have to actually play through the low levels when you don't have animated shield access, here. If you spend your feats wisely, instead of +3AC and unimportant ranged ability you instead get tactical versatility. If you need something killed fast, Shock Trooper/Combat Brute obviously does that. If you need something corked up, you can instead shield charge it (triggering a trip and a daze) and start beating it sick with Three Mountains. I did consider CQF, but I decided against it (at least for now) as I most of the scary grapple monsters have reach. If they initiate the grapple with reach then the feat would be worthess as I couldn't hit them with the AoO. (At least the way that I read the feat, you'd have to be able to actually hit the monster to get the AoO.) At the same time, of the last few monsters that decided to grapple him, most have ended being pinned by him. I actually played through a few levels in a chain shirt and crap (14) AC as I didn't want to lose my 30' move. I finally decided I had to do something about his AC as he spent a fair amount of time on the ground bleeding. (Why the Armor Feats show up.) I picked up Brutal throw as my character was awarded the Saighden Spear in the Dust series mod, which led to me taking power throw too. At 10th level I reached a point where I decided I needed to do something to take advantage of the 2 throw feats I wasn't using, and I was tired of chasing the bad guys around the battlefield or spending half the battle closing, so I took quickdraw and started experimenting with Javelins. At 12th I reinforced that with the 2 Javelin feats as it was working out fairly well. I am quite happy with my feat choices as he now effects more than just the 8 squares around him, as he can do considerable damage to anyone with a couple range increments. At the APLs he;s at now I don't relish charging an enemy melee fighter to get full attacked. Instead, he full attacks them with javelins until they charge him and he gets the first melee full attack. I guess you can see that I don't consider his ranged capability as unimportant. I've been in fights where I would have stood and watched the fight without contributing at all, as all the bad guys flew. Instead I was dropping them as he can easily do 40+ points a round with the javelins. (Base javelins damage for him is 1d6+10 and max so far was 77 in one round. (No crits, power throwing for 5, I hit with 4...) Typing this out I realize that a character that is planned to retirement before his first mod is going to turn out very different than a character who isn't planned at all and choses feats based on his in game experience. (The way this fighter was built.) In a way to me planning a character out to retirement seems counter-intuitive as the character is 'forced' down a certain path instead being allowed to take on a life all it's own.
Japangirl 01-19-07, 10:42 PM	Well, I plan out my characters to retirement, but then I go with the flow when unexpected things happen. So far, my bard and wizard haven't seen anything so special that I want to change the plans for them, but my rogue now has a sorceror level now and I love it.
jhorred 01-20-07, 12:23 AM	Well, I plan out my characters to retirement, but then I go with the flow when unexpected things happen. So far, my bard and wizard haven't seen anything so special that I want to change the plans for them, but my rogue now has a sorceror level now and I love it. I'd like to add the caveat that I know some planning ahead is needed for taking a PrC and such. I've done that for my newest two characters but I have no concrete plans with them past their 1st PrC level.