Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lightblade 08-29-07, 07:18 PM	Hi, all. I thought i wouldn't have to worry about this until next year, but with the TU announcement I will be able to play a character that has acquired a 10th level Whisper Gnome cohort. i was thinking something along the lines of Blade Bravo, using Swashbuckler and Rogue levels (and possibly fighter for feats). Scores: 15 Dex + 2 race +1 bump = 18 14 Int 13 Con + 2 race + 1 bump = 16 12 Cha - 2 race = 10 10 Str - 2 race = 8 8 Wis As for levels, i'm not sure where to break them Rogue 4 / Swash 3 / Blade Bravo 3, or Rogue 3 / Swash 3 / Blade Bravo 4, or Rogue 3 / Swash 2 / Fighter 1 / BB 4 or Rogue 3 / Swash 1 / Fighter 2 / BB 4 As for feats: Daring outlaw depending on the level break, as well as deadly defense seem like solid feats. Is staggering strike a must have, or just overrated? Finally, should I hit up improved feint or two weapon fighting? [The character will have a Belt of Battle, and the main character will be supplying haste and/or a high level (+4) bard song]
JamesMaissen 08-29-07, 09:31 PM	Is staggering strike a must have, or just overrated? If you do significant damage on a sneak attack and plan to be in melee then frankly.. yes it is. Higher level melee is focused around full attack actions.. if you can remove that from a bad guy.. that's huge. It's also very defensive.. which a rogue needs to survive as a d6HD class in melee. -James
clik_ml 08-30-07, 12:57 AM	If you do significant damage on a sneak attack and plan to be in melee then frankly.. yes it is. Higher level melee is focused around full attack actions.. if you can remove that from a bad guy.. that's huge. It's also very defensive.. which a rogue needs to survive as a d6HD class in melee. -James Indeed. My wife's level 8 barbarian is gonna take a rogue level at 9th largely for Staggering Strike (she also wants to tumble around, bless her heart). I expect the returns from that level to be well worth it. For this Blade Bravo I'd be inclined to go 4 Rog/3 Swash/3 BladeBravo with the Staggering Strike and TWFing, mostly because you need to deal damage. With all that bonus damage, TWF will pay off well, and you really do need that bunch of bonus dice in order to bring the damage. 3d6 sneak attack at APL 10-12 ain't gonna cut it with the 3 Rog/1 Swa/2 Ftr/4 BB... that won't create decent Staggering Strike DCs. 5d6+2 is alright with 4 attacks per round (TWF+haste+2 iteratives). I wouldn't bother to blow a feat for +1 sneak attack die, but +2 dice is alright (so Daring Outlaw ok, but I'd question Deadly Defense especially with its restrictions). Having a melee character as a cohort is usually rough since they only have "elite" stats and NPC cash, but since your main is a support character it shouldn't be that bad by any means. I wouldn't worry about Improved Feint as you will be a lot more likely to get a flank since you control two characters. So 4 Rog/3 Swa/3 BladeBravo Feats: 1)Combat Expertise S)Weapon Finesse 3)Daring Outlaw 6)Weapon Focus (rapier) 9-BB)TWF 9)Staggering Strike If you don't use 2 rapiers then I'd recommend using Armor Spikes+Rapier so you can use a buckler to bump up the AC some. At 12th level for the cohort you can take Imp TWF and Greater TWF and have many, many attacks. Best of Luck, - Erik
boolean 08-30-07, 07:59 PM	I wouldn't bother to blow a feat for +1 sneak attack die, but +2 dice is alright (so Daring Outlaw ok, but I'd question Deadly Defense especially with its restrictions). Deadly Defense has one big benefit: it works on anything, including creatures immune to sneak attack.
kjenks 09-02-07, 11:52 PM	Indeed. My wife's level 8 barbarian is gonna take a rogue level at 9th largely for Staggering Strike (she also wants to tumble around, bless her heart). There's something to remember about a tumbling barbarian: SRD === While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. === So she'll have to Tumble first then rage.
clik_ml 09-03-07, 08:00 AM	There's something to remember about a tumbling barbarian: SRD === ... === So she'll have to Tumble first then rage. Congratulations, you just made my wife cry. Well, she made a pouty face anywho. I think she still will want the ranks since she doesn't rage all the time, but thank you since I had totally forgotten that restriction.
Lomiat 09-03-07, 10:11 AM	Staggering Strike is great in theory, but in my experience, whenever my Rog/Bbn gets to hit something for sneak damage, the party mops it up before the Staggering matters. He's now 15th level, and I'd say that Staggering Strike that he'd picked up at 9th level has been useful in maybe 3 to 5 encounters. It is a tremendously "cool" feat, and for that I don't regret it. It's a feat I chalk off as gone to "flavor," but I wouldn't recommend it for a power build. Of course, your experience may vary if you don't have a party that deals enough damage to kill everything in 2 to 3 rounds, tops, or if you play in a region with fewer elementals, undead, plant creatures, and high-level rogues and barbarians with Uncanny Dodge.
dkay807 09-03-07, 12:01 PM	Staggering Strike is great in theory, but in my experience, whenever my Rog/Bbn gets to hit something for sneak damage, the party mops it up before the Staggering matters. He's now 15th level, and I'd say that Staggering Strike that he'd picked up at 9th level has been useful in maybe 3 to 5 encounters. It is a tremendously "cool" feat, and for that I don't regret it. It's a feat I chalk off as gone to "flavor," but I wouldn't recommend it for a power build. Of course, your experience may vary if you don't have a party that deals enough damage to kill everything in 2 to 3 rounds, tops, or if you play in a region with fewer elementals, undead, plant creatures, and high-level rogues and barbarians with Uncanny Dodge. So yeah... now that he's level 12, he'll be playing with us a lot more frequently and things typically die in Round 1. It's good to hear someone who has actually had the feat for a while state his opinion... I personally had a feeling the feat was better on paper than in action. James, I would recommend avoiding staggering strike unless you really want it for style. I also don't think that the cohort will be doing enough damage that the Fort save will be difficult to make.
Lomiat 09-03-07, 01:37 PM	So yeah... now that he's level 12, he'll be playing with us a lot more frequently and things typically die in Round 1. It's good to hear someone who has actually had the feat for a while state his opinion... I personally had a feeling the feat was better on paper than in action. James, I would recommend avoiding staggering strike unless you really want it for style. I also don't think that the cohort will be doing enough damage that the Fort save will be difficult to make. Yeah, the feat's much better on paper, but that's how it goes. I fell in love with the idea because my fighter's a tripper, so the idea was that if he got a flank (and both PCs were using reach weapons), he'd be able to trip the BBEG, stagger it, and the BBEG would have to choose to: A) do nothing, or B) get up, 5-step, and be done. As it turns out, in 6 levels, that scenario has played out all of 0 times. And then... when the feat would be really useful (stuck between an Ice Devil and a Marilith, for example), the dice just go against me.
dkay807 09-03-07, 01:53 PM	Yeah, the feat's much better on paper, but that's how it goes. I fell in love with the idea because my fighter's a tripper, so the idea was that if he got a flank (and both PCs were using reach weapons), he'd be able to trip the BBEG, stagger it, and the BBEG would have to choose to: A) do nothing, or B) get up, 5-step, and be done. As it turns out, in 6 levels, that scenario has played out all of 0 times. And then... when the feat would be really useful (stuck between an Ice Devil and a Marilith, for example), the dice just go against me. What? You're being teamed up on by powerful Devil and a powerful Demon? Total thread hijack, but there's something wrong with that scenario.
Lightblade 09-03-07, 02:05 PM	James, I would recommend avoiding staggering strike unless you really want it for style. I also don't think that the cohort will be doing enough damage that the Fort save will be difficult to make. I'm happy to sub in Deadly Defense as a style feat, especially since Blade Bravos require Combat Expertise anyway.
delewobmesid 09-04-07, 03:24 PM	don't forget the level adjustment for the whisper gnome race...
Lightblade 09-04-07, 05:18 PM	No problem. I had the +0 LA in mind when I decided on the whisper gnome race :)
bitznarf 09-06-07, 01:53 PM	I didn't realize whisper gnome was an Open race.
Lightblade 09-06-07, 03:26 PM	It's not, in general. I have campaign documentation allowing for a cohort of the race.
bitznarf 09-06-07, 03:27 PM	Cool.