Post/Author/DateTime	Post
heirodule 02-08-07, 10:04 PM	Ok, so I've been playing one of my PCs since the start of the campaign. I haven' played everything, but a very good share. I'm 13th level, and died twice. I have hardly ANY Access to stuff to craft with a CWI, now that the +2 CL rule is gone. I used to be able to at least make POPs. But I have 40,000 gp banked, and should be able to make SOMETHING up to 80K in value. But I have very little access to anything other than the open stat items, elixirs, a few PoPs (3rd is best), and some "minor" and "medium" wondrous items. Does the circle realize how little CRAFT access there is out there? THis is my list of everything I could craft, with some redundancies removed. Where are the gems of seeing? Boots of teleportation? Dimensional shackles, Iron bands of bilaro? This seems like an awfully boring list. Thoughts? Necklace of the hunt Pop 1 Cloak of resistance +2 Gloves of dexterity +2 Healing cap of veluna Dimensional prism Decanter of endless water Ioun stone of resistance +1-+4 Collar of resistance Quiver of ehlona Amulet of mighty fists Ioun stone pink & green Hand of the mage Periapt +2 Universal solvent Lesser couatl cloak Helm of comp langs Stone salve Gauntlets of ogre power Amulet of health Brooch of sheilding Gloves of mighty fists Slippers of spider climbing Bracers of armor +3, +5 Monks belt Boots of speed Nolzurs marvelous pigments Rope of climbing Murlynds spoon Chime of opening Cape of the mountebank Whip token Elixir of vision Elixir of truth Pop 1 Lt brown elemental gem Dusty rose prisim ioun stone Goggles of minute seeing Dust of appearance Necklace of fireballs 1 Boots of striding and springing Boots of the winterlands Eyes of the eagle Wings of flying Anchor token Robe of vecna Eyes of arcane sight Golembane scarab Amulet of proof against detection and location Circlet of persuasion Candle of truth Circlet of blasting, minor Necklace of adaptation Winged boots Hat of disguise Bag of holding I Necklace of fireballs 2, 5 Bead of force POP 2, POP 3 Bag of holding Cerulean sign +1 Mantle of hidden faith Trumpeters gift POP 3 Boots of levitation Bag of tricks, rust Handy Haversack Scarab of protection Manual of gainful exercize +2 (can't craft anyway)
Gyro_LC 02-08-07, 10:23 PM	I have a crafter with four crafting feats. I am also disappointed with the loss of the CL+2 rule. However, why should we crafters get an extreme advantage of access over others? The change is much more fair to others, which is a good thing.
Mithreinmaethor 02-08-07, 10:25 PM	Plus you can craft the items above +2 without access now cant you ?
heirodule 02-08-07, 10:28 PM	Part of the problem is its almost never coist effective to give a bad guy any of the high cost items. So access is poor as it has been.
heirodule 02-08-07, 10:31 PM	Plus you can craft the items above +2 without access now cant you ? no, I can't
Gyro_LC 02-08-07, 10:31 PM	Plus you can craft the items above +2 without access now cant you ? As I understand it, you can only craft what you have access to purchase on ARs. The Open items in the LGCS count as access. Items you do not have access to purchase cannot be crafted.
Britt 02-08-07, 10:33 PM	There's a lot of cool stuff on that list. I'm not sure what the problem is. You have access to all the staples you need in the new Open list, plus any flavor/nonrequired items you come across in play. Not only that, but you get to have the items at half cost. One problem is that you have played a whole lot of adventures in 3 years of no access. Comparing a character of equal level that played solely in year 4+, you would have a lot more crafting access.
Britt 02-08-07, 10:35 PM	As I understand it, you can only craft what you have access to purchase on ARs. The Open items in the LGCS count as access. Items you do not have access to purchase cannot be crafted. That is not correct, though it was one change we considered heavily. Read the section on MIC; it says: "You can craft any item for which you meet the crafting prerequisites and which you have ever had access to purchase in the Items Found section of any AR" I've already said I would be adding the Open list to that sentence as well; I'm just not sure how yet.
Gyro_LC 02-08-07, 10:43 PM	That is not correct, though it was one change we considered heavily. Read the section on MIC; it says: "You can craft any item for which you meet the crafting prerequisites and which you have ever had access to purchase in the Items Found section of any AR" I've already said I would be adding the Open list to that sentence as well; I'm just not sure how yet. Are you saying that my statement was wrong because I imply that only currently purchasable items can be crafted? I meant say that all items you've ever had access to can be crafted, but I just spaced the necessary wording. My fault. :)
Britt 02-08-07, 11:00 PM	Yes, that was why I was saying you were incorrect :)
heirodule 02-08-07, 11:02 PM	There's a lot of cool stuff on that list. I'm not sure what the problem is. You have access to all the staples you need in the new Open list, plus any flavor/nonrequired items you come across in play. Not only that, but you get to have the items at half cost. One problem is that you have played a whole lot of adventures in 3 years of no access. Comparing a character of equal level that played solely in year 4+, you would have a lot more crafting access. True. Some stuff is cool. But I've already crafted a +6 headband and +6 amulet. My cloak of res is +5. I have 40K gp banked, but NOTHING worth buying. That seems odd to me. At APL 12-14 I don't need more minor consumables. I need stuff that gives me kewl powers. I don't have any of those. Many of the wondrous items aren't worth it because the DCs are so low. Necklace of fireballs isn't going to cut it at APl 14.
Maesto 02-08-07, 11:03 PM	There seems to be no provision for Craft Rod in the new LGCS - can you only craft rods that you've seen access to, or will it be made like craft wand? Also, forge ring seems to get very little use... Also, if I have a favour that allows me to buy something, which I buy, am I then allowed to craft it, as I have it in my hot little hands? ;-)
Gyro_LC 02-08-07, 11:04 PM	True. Some stuff is cool. But I've already crafted a +6 headband and +6 amulet. My cloak of res is +5. I have 40K gp banked, but NOTHING worth buying. That seems odd to me. At APL 12-14 I don't need more minor consumables. I need stuff that gives me kewl powers. I don't have any of those. Many of the wondrous items aren't worth it because the DCs are so low. Necklace of fireballs isn't going to cut it at APl 14. Make Belts of Giant Strength +6, Amulets of Health +6, Cloaks of Resistance +5, etc. and hand them out to the other party members. They'll love you.
Britt 02-08-07, 11:06 PM	There seems to be no provision for Craft Rod in the new LGCS - can you only craft rods that you've seen access to, or will it be made like craft wand? Also, forge ring seems to get very little use... Also, if I have a favour that allows me to buy something, which I buy, am I then allowed to craft it, as I have it in my hot little hands? ;-) There are no rods that are effectively just disposable spell storage, unlike wands and scrolls. Rods are specific magic items, like wondrous items or rings. No. You can craft what's on the Open list and what you have found in the Items Found box.
Britt 02-08-07, 11:12 PM	True. Some stuff is cool. But I've already crafted a +6 headband and +6 amulet. My cloak of res is +5. I have 40K gp banked, but NOTHING worth buying. That seems odd to me. At APL 12-14 I don't need more minor consumables. I need stuff that gives me kewl powers. I don't have any of those. Many of the wondrous items aren't worth it because the DCs are so low. Necklace of fireballs isn't going to cut it at APl 14. It sounds more like you just have too much money for your level. With just the items you have listed there, you're sitting at about 140k character wealth. You have a headband of int, so you're probably a wizard, which means you have a hefty value spellbook as well. You probably also have several other magic items such as ring of protection. The problem isn't that you don't have enough access to craft things, but that you've had too much money and exhausted the crafting opportunities that others would not have exhausted. That's an unfortunate consequence of dying in the LG system; it puts you ahead of the gp:xp curve in most cases. And flavor should be more important to you than "kewl powers".
bitznarf 02-09-07, 12:08 AM	And flavor should be more important to you than "kewl powers". I would consider that to *be* a flavour thing. If a particular PC is impressed by "kewl powers" and wants more of them, that is part of that PC's flavour.
heirodule 02-09-07, 12:19 AM	It sounds more like you just have too much money for your level. With just the items you have listed there, you're sitting at about 140k character wealth. You have a headband of int, so you're probably a wizard, which means you have a hefty value spellbook as well. You probably also have several other magic items such as ring of protection. The problem isn't that you don't have enough access to craft things, but that you've had too much money and exhausted the crafting opportunities that others would not have exhausted. That's an unfortunate consequence of dying in the LG system; it puts you ahead of the gp:xp curve in most cases. And flavor should be more important to you than "kewl powers". I suppose that I do have a lot of money. I find its most of the high end medium and the major wondrous items where the flavor AND powers are. By Kewl I mean flavorfull. Yes, the feather tokens have some flavor. And my book. But a "cape of the mountebank" is the wrong flavor for a wizard, PLUS, I already take 2 dim doors for my 4th level spell every time. So I'd rather have something fun in the 30 to 60k gp range. Nothing. I looked over the ARs. LOTS of wands, staves, rods, ands RINGS galore, but not a whole lot of wondrous. Lots of wondrous FAVORS, but not access. I think its a feature of the recommended NPC wealth guidelines for authors (I know, I'm an author) Also: I have two +6 items 1) because I had nothing else to strive for 2) I had a curse that made me inflicted by cures, so I figured lots of HP would help out
Britt 02-09-07, 12:22 AM	I think its a feature of the recommended NPC wealth guidelines for authors (I know, I'm an author) That could be. It's hard to work in expensive wondrous items in the Items Found section. You basically have to either ignore the recommended wealth and GP cap for the mod, or give them nothing else for equipment.
Maesto 02-09-07, 01:17 AM	Just a quick comment on the craft rod - if I want to make a rod of a metamagic feat, say, I take empower and craft rod, I need to have access to find a rod of empower (lesser/med/greater) in order to craft one? Ok, just thought that was a bit strange.
heirodule 02-09-07, 09:37 AM	Actually, necklace of adaptation is off my list, since alter self went away...
Timlagor 02-09-07, 10:11 AM	Actually, necklace of adaptation is off my list, since alter self went away... Drat that's another thing I should have crafted earlier. *sigh* Seeing as how much you like crafters how about letting us have spells in our books that can only be used for crafting Britt? :D
Rerednaw 02-09-07, 02:19 PM	My wizard was about to start with Wondrous Items. Here was his list of things he wanted to make: Helm of Comprehend Languages: I like to talk first, shoot second. Necklace of Adaption (too many uses to name) Hat of Disguise (fun factor mostly but very useful) Decanter of Endless Water Heward's Handy Haversack (just got access) Medallion of Thoughts (great for investigating) Pearls of Power (duh) Boccob's Blessed Book (when he hit level 12 or 14) Off of the above list what does 597 give me in terms of access that I didn't already have (or was about to gain): Nothing. What did I lose off of that list? All of them except the HHH and the BBB. Am I reading this right? Or did I miss something? I can now count the items he wants to make on one hand. Period. At least he can train and drop his item creation feats.
Britt 02-09-07, 02:29 PM	Seeing as how much you like crafters how about letting us have spells in our books that can only be used for crafting Britt? :D Give me a list of spells and related items that are affected by spells being closed and we'll talk about it.
dkay807 02-09-07, 02:49 PM	Give me a list of spells and related items that are affected by spells being closed and we'll talk about it. Permanency and Flying Carpets. What is a Baklunish wizard without having crafted his own flying carpet? I mean, COME ON! My Tusmit PC had to pay full gold for his (not that he was capable of crafting, or even a spellcaster for that matter).
Britt 02-09-07, 02:54 PM	I need a full list, not one at a time. Sorry, but I don't have time right now to compile everything myself. If you all want to work together to compile such a list for our consideration, please do.
Munkwunk 02-09-07, 04:21 PM	I think part of this problem will go away now that the "staple" items (stat bump items, rings of protection, cloaks of resistance, etc.) are Open access. Before LGCS597, authors had to worry about handing out access to these common items because adventurers need them but couldn't easily get their hands on them. We frequently saw access to the same things over and over. Now that those are Open though, future mods will ilkely start giving access to more "cool stuff" which will then translate in to crafting access. I know you don't have much time left as a 14th level character, but in the long run I think you'll find that crafting access will eventually get a lot better than it is now.
heirodule 02-09-07, 04:58 PM	My wizard was about to start with Wondrous Items. Here was his list of things he wanted to make: Decanter of Endless Water Medallion of Thoughts (great for investigating) Boccob's Blessed Book (when he hit level 12 or 14) The decanter doesn't seem that useful, other than a water source. It could make a challenging survival mod not challenging. The medallion of thoughts STINKS. DC 12 will save! Everyone important will make that. Boccobs book is awesome. Crafting it yourself is great. Its one of the other reasons I have so much money. It cost 6,250gp, but "photocopying" just ten 6th level spells into it pays for itself. And I have way more than that.
Timlagor 02-09-07, 10:26 PM	Give me a list of spells and related items that are affected by spells being closed and we'll talk about it. Darn it! Can't I suggest anything without you taking me up on it? Ok I started a new thread for this here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=788738 Only two so far but I'm sure there are more (or will be). If not I hope the shortness of the list wouldn't put you off the idea. Another one that probably deserves an official answer: do you need a Focus for spells used in crafting. I'm particularly thinking of the Hewards Handy Haversack which would require a 5000gp focus (possibly never to be used again) for a 2000gp item [and it seems obvious to me that the haversack should be the focus in this case]; can foci be treated as trade goods for resale purposes?
heirodule 02-09-07, 10:29 PM	Another one that probably deserves an official answer: do you need a Focus for spells used in crafting. I'm particularly thinking of the Hewards Handy Haversack which would require a 5000gp focus (possibly never to be used again) for a 2000gp item [and it seems obvious to me that the haversack should be the focus in this case]; can foci be treated as trade goods for resale purposes? Back in like, year 3 when a haversack was my most lusted after item, I repeatedly asked about this and I think the basic D&D ruling is that you don't actually need the focus to make one. The issue is that the Haversack is underpriced if you have to factor in buying a 5000gp chest.