Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zrealm 02-03-06, 01:37 PM	One of the questions that has come up a few times around is that of access to large armor and barding. Essentially: 1. Can you buy barding for a traditional riding animal (horse, mule, etc). The LGCS implies yes but really isn't that clear. 2. Does Barding exist for non riding animals? If so, do people have access to it? 3. If not, does armor exist and do you have access to it? It's clear you do for medium sized animals, but what about large ones? Specifically these 3 questions have come up in relation to one of our local character's tigers, a large animal. Can he just buy armor for it? Could we get these clarified in the LGCS? They've come up at a bunch of cons I've been at, and every time they hit the boards noone really has an answer.
clannagh 02-21-06, 11:03 PM	our regional (perrenland) group had a discussion on this and the consensus was yes however there was some disagreement about armor proficiency with barding with a number of people claiming that animals like tigers would need to put a feat into it or take the penalty to all attacks there was also some suggestion that druids should not buy metal barding for companion animals but this was more based on role playing considerations rather than any specific rules
Mad Monkey 02-22-06, 06:03 AM	Barding for medium and large sized creatures is in the PHB (table 7-8, Goods and Services), and according to the LGCS you can buy anything from that table except npc spellcasting services. You should be able to buy barding for a large tiger. But an animal is not proficient with armor unless it is trained for war. Animal Type: An animal is a living, nonhuman creature, usually a vertebrate with no magical abilities and no innate capacity for language or culture. Features: An animal has the following features (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry). —d8 Hit Dice. —Base attack bonus equal to 3/4 total Hit Dice (as cleric). —Good Fortitude and Reflex saves (certain animals have different good saves). —Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die. Traits: An animal possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry). —Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal). —Low-light vision. —Alignment: Always neutral. —Treasure: None. —Proficient with its natural weapons only. A noncombative herbivore uses its natural weapons as a secondary attack. Such attacks are made with a –5 penalty on the creature’s attack rolls, and the animal receives only 1/2 its Strength modifier as a damage adjustment. —Proficient with no armor unless trained for war. —Animals eat, sleep, and breathe.And you cannot train an animal for war in LG.
theliel 02-22-06, 01:02 PM	Barding for medium and large sized creatures is in the PHB (table 7-8, Goods and Services), and according to the LGCS you can buy anything from that table except npc spellcasting services. You should be able to buy barding for a large tiger. But an animal is not proficient with armor unless it is trained for war. And you cannot train an animal for war in LG. so a warhorse can't wear barding? yha. this needed to be covered in lgcs..again. not covered.
kenobi65 02-22-06, 01:26 PM	so a warhorse can't wear barding? What leads you to that rather interesting conclusion?
theliel 02-22-06, 03:45 PM	What leads you to that rather interesting conclusion? Can't train an animal for war in LG, Warhorses are breed for strength and agression but "Trained for War" is NOT a quality in any entry in the MM. most people just assume that an animal with "WAR" in the title is trained for war, however, there is no note stating they are explicitly trianed for war. nor are there rules for training an animal for war.
Bob_the_Theurge 02-22-06, 03:59 PM	Can't train an animal for war in LG, Warhorses are breed for strength and agression but "Trained for War" is NOT a quality in any entry in the MM. most people just assume that an animal with "WAR" in the title is trained for war, however, there is no note stating they are explicitly trianed for war. nor are there rules for training an animal for war. See the SRD: http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/theraven_stephenh/skills/HANDLE_ANIMAL.html Oddly enough, you can Train an animal for Combat Riding, for Guarding, for Heavy Labor, for Hunting, for Performance, or for Riding. There is indeed no entry for Training for War (though I suppose Combat Riding is what they mean).
theliel 02-22-06, 04:20 PM	See the SRD: http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/theraven_stephenh/skills/HANDLE_ANIMAL.html Oddly enough, you can Train an animal for Combat Riding, for Guarding, for Heavy Labor, for Hunting, for Performance, or for Riding. There is indeed no entry for Training for War (though I suppose Combat Riding is what they mean). but it isn't what is says....it says trianed for war, and no wher ein the srd does it say how to do that or what constitutes trianed for war.
kenobi65 02-22-06, 04:20 PM	Can't train an animal for war in LG, Warhorses are breed for strength and agression but "Trained for War" is NOT a quality in any entry in the MM. most people just assume that an animal with "WAR" in the title is trained for war, however, there is no note stating they are explicitly trianed for war. nor are there rules for training an animal for war. You're right, it does need to be clarified. However, even if, worst-case scenario, a Judge decides that your warhorse isn't "trained for war", it doesn't mean he can't wear barding, it just means he's not proficient with it, and suffers penalties.
clannagh 02-22-06, 05:40 PM	this is one that locally tends to be left up to the GM With a purchased animal not much can be done except accept the -4 attack penalty if you get a tough GM but for animal companions a few people have given them the appropriate armor feat once they gain hit dice just to cover themselves in the odd game with a pedantic GM there is also an issue about the "fluff" comments in the PHB about barding not being able to be worn continually which, annoyingly, does not sepcify exactly how long it can be worn
Samwise 02-22-06, 06:05 PM	Well this is something that should be definitively clarified, either with official system errata, or with a specific, clear, LG house rule. Flavor text is all well and good, but the game system is predicated on specific definitions. There should be one for this.
Howie23 02-22-06, 10:37 PM	this is one that locally tends to be left up to the GM With a purchased animal not much can be done except accept the -4 attack penalty if you get a tough GM but for animal companions a few people have given them the appropriate armor feat once they gain hit dice just to cover themselves in the odd game with a pedantic GM Would it be pedantic to correct the quoted penalty? :) The penalty is the AC Check Penalty, not -4. The distinction means that light barding is almost without penalty (can you say masterwork studded leather or mithral chain?), while plate barding renders the horse pretty much as transportation only. David
clannagh 02-22-06, 10:47 PM	good point, i was thinking of a specific example where the person bought scale mail barding the attack penalty is of course the check penalty of the armor type the barding is based on