Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arcainite 06-08-07, 11:26 PM	the price adjustment listings for adamantium items are ammunition, light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, and weapon..... Shields are armor, but they are listed in the weapons chart and I intend to have this be a +1 Adamantium Hvy Shield of Bashing (which inheritly makes it a +1 weapon as well as a d8 damage unmodified with very nice sundering ability from the adamantium). I just want to know, as far as pricing goes. Are adamantium shields weapons (5000gp total is alot better than 7000gp total) as I think they are or do they count as light armor or worse...medium?! I did see that adamantium weapons/armor already have the masterwork cost factored in. It's just a matter of how much it's going to cost me. I have enough either way, but for the sake of other purchases it's really important. (by the way, I have Improved Shield Bash and so still get the AC bonus for using it as a weapon...also am going to be using Lesser Energized Shield as needed)
King Kashue 06-08-07, 11:54 PM	I just want to know, as far as pricing goes. Are adamantium shields weapons (5000gp total is alot better than 7000gp total) as I think they are or do they count as light armor or worse...medium?! I did see that adamantium weapons/armor already have the masterwork cost factored in. It's just a matter of how much it's going to cost me. I have enough either way, but for the sake of other purchases it's really important. It's not on the table nor in the rules text... However, the pricing for mithral has it at the same cost for light armor. Given that would be the higher of the two choices between light armor and weapon, it's probably the "safe" answer in terms of inquiring judges...
KarmaInferno 06-09-07, 12:19 AM	An adamantine shield costs an extra 5,000 gp (the same as the extra cost for adamantine light armor). Adamantine armor gives you some damage reduction (how much depends on the kind of armor; see page 283 in the Dungeon Master’s Guide) but an adamantine shield does not. An adamantine shield is always a masterwork shield, so its armor check penalty is reduced by 1 (–0 for a buckler or light shield, –1 for a heavy shield). An adamantine shield also has a hardness of 20 and one third more hit points than normal (6 for a buckler, 13 for a light shield, 26 for a heavy shield). -karma
kenobi65 06-09-07, 12:42 AM	the price adjustment listings for adamantium items... Just because it's late and I'm tired... Adamantine is the rare, ultra-hard metal in D&D. Adamantium is the rare, ultra-hard metal that Wolverine's bones and claws are made of.
Arcainite 06-09-07, 01:07 AM	-karma Thanks KarmaInferno. Why do I get your negative karma? Kenobi, yeah, I guess you're right. It's late though where I am too. ;) And I had Captain America on the brain (Rest In Peace Steve Rogers).
King Kashue 06-09-07, 01:32 AM	Just because it's late and I'm tired... Adamantine is the rare, ultra-hard metal in D&D. Adamantium is the rare, ultra-hard metal that Wolverine's bones and claws are made of. More correctly, Adamantine is an adjectival form that D&D is trying to pass off as a noun... because... Adamantium is the nominative form (though not a real word) that Marvel Comics has the rights to :D Same reason that Frodo wore a mail shirt of Mithril, and we all hope for access to Mithral ;) Adamant derives from a Greek root, and generally has referred to diamonds, and more loosely as "an extremely hard substance"... The fact that D&D is using an adjectival form has annoyed the crap out of me since 3e came out.
Arcainite 06-09-07, 09:18 AM	More correctly, Adamantine is an adjectival form that D&D is trying to pass off as a noun... because... Adamantium is the nominative form (though not a real word) that Marvel Comics has the rights to :D Same reason that Frodo wore a mail shirt of Mithril, and we all hope for access to Mithral ;) Adamant derives from a Greek root, and generally has referred to diamonds, and more loosely as "an extremely hard substance"... The fact that D&D is using an adjectival form has annoyed the crap out of me since 3e came out. I can make it +1 but I don't think I can make it Bashing (a +1 equivalent cost addition) without AR access, is that correct?
King Kashue 06-09-07, 12:50 PM	I can make it +1 but I don't think I can make it Bashing (a +1 equivalent cost addition) without AR access, is that correct? Yes... And making it +1 for defensive purposes does not make it +1 for weapon purposes.
Arcainite 06-09-07, 01:01 PM	Yes... And making it +1 for defensive purposes does not make it +1 for weapon purposes. I know! That's why I wanted to get Bashing added because that's one of the perks. Not just the extra two size levels for determining damage.
kenobi65 06-09-07, 03:06 PM	The fact that D&D is using an adjectival form has annoyed the crap out of me since 3e came out. Only since then? D&D has used "adamantine" since 1E.
King Kashue 06-10-07, 02:13 AM	Only since then? D&D has used "adamantine" since 1E. In 2e they used "Adamantite", not "Adamantine", the former is at least a nominative ending... And it was used so little in the previous game (generally only with drow equipment) that it wasn't annoying. It's so prevalent in 3e that it's just irksome...
katrick 06-10-07, 10:24 AM	It was in the Silmarillion about 1930's though i remember a different spelling, i no longer have the book. katrick
King Kashue 06-10-07, 03:33 PM	It was in the Silmarillion about 1930's though i remember a different spelling, i no longer have the book. katrick The word "Adamant" and "Adamantine" go back centuries, "Adamantine" is in book six of the Aeneid (I think it's book six). They mean "really hard substance" and generally refer to diamonds. However, "Adamantine" is still an adjective. It's not that D&D or Tolkien invented it that's the problem, the annoying thing is they're using an adjective as a noun... It's like saying "The shield is made out of wooden", "that sword is made out of metallic"...That's what annoys me :D
kenobi65 06-10-07, 08:23 PM	In 2e they used "Adamantite", not "Adamantine" Ah. Memory's getting fuzzy with age. :D
Arcainite 06-10-07, 10:05 PM	I can make it +1 but I don't think I can make it Bashing (a +1 equivalent cost addition) without AR access, is that correct? Luckily, I do have Core access to give it Bashing, but I opted to save the enchanting part for later and just leave it a heavy adamantine shield for the time being. I can still use it for sundering and for my lesser energized shield spells and it saves me the money until I know that I don't have anything better to spend it on. I was really hoping it would be 3000 gp instead of 5000 gp lol. I can afford the enchanting I just don't want to do it yet. Well, also I need to wait until after a Core mod. Since adamantine is considered masterwork as well then I don't have to worry about having to sell back this shield. Thank you all for your help.
King Kashue 06-11-07, 04:10 AM	Ah. Memory's getting fuzzy with age. :D Only reason I know is I went and grabbed the books...:D
KShaver 06-11-07, 08:49 AM	The word "Adamant" and "Adamantine" go back centuries, "Adamantine" is in book six of the Aeneid (I think it's book six). They mean "really hard substance" and generally refer to diamonds. Not necessarily diamonds, but we do commonly associate diamonds with hard rocks. The term refers a bit more to a legendary material though. Marvel added the -ium to make their own word that referred to a metal rather than a rock. Since they made the word up D&D couldn't use it, particularly once Wizards took over since they are very carefull with trademarks.
King Kashue 06-11-07, 11:30 AM	Not necessarily diamonds, but we do commonly associate diamonds with hard rocks. The term refers a bit more to a legendary material though. No offense, but that's like the last 50 years you're referring to (i.e., the Marvel era) with the 'legendary material' idea. Virgil just means "really freaking hard substance" when he's talking about his pillars (and it is book six, I looked it up), and the medieval use of the term is usually a reference to diamonds. The usage is as I described. Generally, it means "incredibly hard substance", and if it's referring to a specific substance, it's almost always diamonds.
KShaver 06-11-07, 02:43 PM	No offense, but that's like the last 50 years you're referring to (i.e., the Marvel era) with the 'legendary material' idea. Virgil just means "really freaking hard substance" when he's talking about his pillars (and it is book six, I looked it up), and the medieval use of the term is usually a reference to diamonds. The usage is as I described. Generally, it means "incredibly hard substance", and if it's referring to a specific substance, it's almost always diamonds. The original term did not refer to diamonds. It is a Greek word, so Medieval usage is not really a good way to define it. Of course we are a bit OT.
King Kashue 06-11-07, 08:44 PM	The original term did not refer to diamonds. It is a Greek word, so Medieval usage is not really a good way to define it. Of course we are a bit OT. Well, it's not a greek word, it's derived from a Greek root word (adamas), which is coincidentally the same root for "diamond". The greek word means "Invincible" or "Unconquerable" And Virgil is quite classical, so I'm not giving you just the Medieval. However, the medieval is how it was used for 1000+ years, so it's a pretty darn good way to define it. Classical, medieval, modern, the word means "really hard substance"...If it refers to a specific material, it most often refers to diamonds. If you want, I can copy the whole OED entry. It's got usage references back to the 1300s for English.
ShinAkuma2 06-11-07, 11:11 PM	There's also the fact that adamantine is really, really hard to break (hardness 20), while adamantium is nearly impossible to break. After it sets as a solid, it's not even possible to liquify it again. It's a testament to Magneto's power that he can affect the metal as much as he can.
King Kashue 06-12-07, 01:48 AM	There's also the fact that adamantine is really, really hard to break (hardness 20), while adamantium is nearly impossible to break. After it sets as a solid, it's not even possible to liquify it again. It's a testament to Magneto's power that he can affect the metal as much as he can. Dang...:( I was all "blah, blah, blah, history and language geek"... You totally went to "blah, blah, blah, comics geek"... I can't compete with that :D
ShinAkuma2 06-12-07, 07:10 PM	Ha ha, I'm sorry. I love studying language and all, but on this subject, the only thing left to add was the comics connection. Had I any more historical information, I'd have thrown it in there...