Air Elemental Whirlwind Question... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Air Elemental Whirlwind Question... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rerednaw
05-10-07, 02:30 PM Whirlwind (Su): The elemental can transform itself into a whirlwind once every 10 minutes and remain in that form for up to 1 round for every 2 HD it has. In this form, the elemental can move through the air or along a surface at its fly speed.
The whirlwind is 5 feet wide at the base, up to 30 feet wide at the top, and up to 50 feet tall, depending on the elemental’s size. The elemental controls the exact height, but it must be at least 10 feet.
The elemental’s movement while in whirlwind form does not provoke attacks of opportunity, even if the elemental enters the space another creature occupies. Another creature might be caught in the whirlwind if it touches or enters the whirlwind, or if the elemental moves into or through the creature’s space.
Creatures one or more size categories smaller than the elemental might take damage when caught in the whirlwind (see the table below for details) and may be lifted into the air. An affected creature must succeed on a Reflex save when it comes into contact with the whirlwind or take the indicated damage. It must also succeed on a second Reflex save or be picked up bodily and held suspended in the powerful winds, automatically taking the indicated damage each round. A creature that can fly is allowed a Reflex save each round to escape the whirlwind. The creature still takes damage but can leave if the save is successful. The DC for saves against the whirlwind’s effects varies with the elemental’s size (see the table). The save DC is Strength based.
Creatures trapped in the whirlwind cannot move except to go where the elemental carries them or to escape the whirlwind.
Creatures caught in the whirlwind can otherwise act normally, but must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell. Creatures caught in the whirlwind take a –4 penalty to Dexterity and a –2 penalty on attack rolls. The elemental can have only as many creatures trapped inside the whirlwind at one time as will fit inside the whirlwind’s volume.
The elemental can eject any carried creatures whenever it wishes, depositing them wherever the whirlwind happens to be. A summoned elemental always ejects trapped creatures before returning to its home plane.
If the whirlwind’s base touches the ground, it creates a swirling cloud of debris. This cloud is centered on the elemental and has a diameter equal to half the whirlwind’s height. The cloud obscures all vision, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. Creatures 5 feet away have concealment, while those farther away have total concealment.
Those caught in the cloud must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell.
An elemental in whirlwind form cannot make slam attacks and does not threaten the area around it.

Okay so a Large Elemental has a couple of goblins in a whirlwind. He decides to eject them. Are they ejected:
1) At the base of the whirlwind.
2) From the top of the whirlwind.
3) Somewhere in between (random or air elemental's choice).

Likewise, say one of the goblins is a flier and makes the reflex save to escape...at which height does he escape?
CdrcJsn
05-10-07, 03:30 PM It seems reasonable to assume that those in the whirlwhind take up space similar to a person in a grapple (i.e. takes up all spaces of the larger creature).

If you look it that way, then it seems to follow that they can be ejected or escape from any adjacent square of the elemental.

Frankly, 10-30' difference in height doesn't really matter much when the elemental is 300' up in the air (a common tactic I've seen used). :rolleyes:
Timlagor
05-12-07, 08:50 PM I'd say ejectee's choice as per grapple but expect table variation. I consider teh fact htat it doesn't mention falling damage a significant indication that they didn't expect them to be allowed to eject people a the top.
solbergb
05-14-07, 02:57 PM Uh...escaping a grapple only lets you choose if you escape.

If the other guy ejects you from the grappple (by pinning you and dropping you as a free action) HE gets to decide which square you are dropped in.

The elemental gets to pick the square at my tables. But as Cedric said, usually if you're being ejected, it is because he's at the 20d6 height anyway.

The exception would be if the whirlwind is interrupted somehow, as at that point the elemental has to drop the critters - I'd just randomize it then. The most likey thing would be a dismissal or similar, as those suckers are immune to stunning and paralysis and most other means of interfering with movement won't stop the whirlwind till the duration runs out. I've seen air elementals doomtided that long...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rerednaw 05-10-07, 02:30 PM	Whirlwind (Su): The elemental can transform itself into a whirlwind once every 10 minutes and remain in that form for up to 1 round for every 2 HD it has. In this form, the elemental can move through the air or along a surface at its fly speed. The whirlwind is 5 feet wide at the base, up to 30 feet wide at the top, and up to 50 feet tall, depending on the elemental’s size. The elemental controls the exact height, but it must be at least 10 feet. The elemental’s movement while in whirlwind form does not provoke attacks of opportunity, even if the elemental enters the space another creature occupies. Another creature might be caught in the whirlwind if it touches or enters the whirlwind, or if the elemental moves into or through the creature’s space. Creatures one or more size categories smaller than the elemental might take damage when caught in the whirlwind (see the table below for details) and may be lifted into the air. An affected creature must succeed on a Reflex save when it comes into contact with the whirlwind or take the indicated damage. It must also succeed on a second Reflex save or be picked up bodily and held suspended in the powerful winds, automatically taking the indicated damage each round. A creature that can fly is allowed a Reflex save each round to escape the whirlwind. The creature still takes damage but can leave if the save is successful. The DC for saves against the whirlwind’s effects varies with the elemental’s size (see the table). The save DC is Strength based. Creatures trapped in the whirlwind cannot move except to go where the elemental carries them or to escape the whirlwind. Creatures caught in the whirlwind can otherwise act normally, but must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell. Creatures caught in the whirlwind take a –4 penalty to Dexterity and a –2 penalty on attack rolls. The elemental can have only as many creatures trapped inside the whirlwind at one time as will fit inside the whirlwind’s volume. The elemental can eject any carried creatures whenever it wishes, depositing them wherever the whirlwind happens to be. A summoned elemental always ejects trapped creatures before returning to its home plane. If the whirlwind’s base touches the ground, it creates a swirling cloud of debris. This cloud is centered on the elemental and has a diameter equal to half the whirlwind’s height. The cloud obscures all vision, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. Creatures 5 feet away have concealment, while those farther away have total concealment. Those caught in the cloud must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell. An elemental in whirlwind form cannot make slam attacks and does not threaten the area around it. Okay so a Large Elemental has a couple of goblins in a whirlwind. He decides to eject them. Are they ejected: 1) At the base of the whirlwind. 2) From the top of the whirlwind. 3) Somewhere in between (random or air elemental's choice). Likewise, say one of the goblins is a flier and makes the reflex save to escape...at which height does he escape?
CdrcJsn 05-10-07, 03:30 PM	It seems reasonable to assume that those in the whirlwhind take up space similar to a person in a grapple (i.e. takes up all spaces of the larger creature). If you look it that way, then it seems to follow that they can be ejected or escape from any adjacent square of the elemental. Frankly, 10-30' difference in height doesn't really matter much when the elemental is 300' up in the air (a common tactic I've seen used). :rolleyes:
Timlagor 05-12-07, 08:50 PM	I'd say ejectee's choice as per grapple but expect table variation. I consider teh fact htat it doesn't mention falling damage a significant indication that they didn't expect them to be allowed to eject people a the top.
solbergb 05-14-07, 02:57 PM	Uh...escaping a grapple only lets you choose if you escape. If the other guy ejects you from the grappple (by pinning you and dropping you as a free action) HE gets to decide which square you are dropped in. The elemental gets to pick the square at my tables. But as Cedric said, usually if you're being ejected, it is because he's at the 20d6 height anyway. The exception would be if the whirlwind is interrupted somehow, as at that point the elemental has to drop the critters - I'd just randomize it then. The most likey thing would be a dismissal or similar, as those suckers are immune to stunning and paralysis and most other means of interfering with movement won't stop the whirlwind till the duration runs out. I've seen air elementals doomtided that long...