Alchemist Tools Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alchemist Tools Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
El_Cid
02-15-07, 10:28 PM The PHB states:

Alchemist’s Lab: An alchemist’s lab always has the perfect tool for making alchemical items, so it provides a +2 circumstance bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks. It has no bearing on the costs related to the Craft (alchemy) skill. Without this lab, a character with the Craft (alchemy) skill is assumed to have enough tools to use the skill but not enough to get the +2 bonus that the lab provides.

Artisan’s Tools: These special tools include the items needed to pursue any craft. Without them, you have to use improvised tools (–2 penalty on Craft checks), if you can do the job at all.

Artisan’s Tools, Masterwork: These tools serve the same purpose as artisan’s tools (above), but masterwork artisan’s tools are the perfect tools for the job, so you get a +2 circumstance bonus on Craft checks made with them.

Questions:

If I have the Craft - Alchemy skill, do I use only the Alchemist’s Lab or can I use the Artisan’s Tools, Masterwork to gain the +2 circumstance bonus on Craft checks made with them?

Could I use both and do the circumstance bonus on Craft checks made with them stack?

Thanks,
Sidney
Arvagor
02-15-07, 10:53 PM IMO, if the PHB (or another source) describes a tool specific to a particular skill, then that's the one you have to use to gain a bonus in that skill, and the circumstance bonus from a generic tool will not stack with the circumstance bonus from a specific one. And generic tools are subject to the DM's approval -- e.g., no masterwork breath mints or masterwork bustiers to improve Diplomacy (although depending on the mood of the table, I might give the latter a bonus on Bluff or Gather Information checks if the race/gender combination were appropriate ;) )

But as I said, IMO...
ShinAkuma2
02-16-07, 12:18 AM If you could use them together, they wouldn't stack, as they are circumstance bonuses arising from essentially the same circumstance: Having really good equipment.
El_Cid
02-16-07, 08:58 AM IMO, if the PHB (or another source) describes a tool specific to a particular skill, then that's the one you have to use to gain a bonus in that skill, and the circumstance bonus from a generic tool will not stack with the circumstance bonus from a specific one. And generic tools are subject to the DM's approval -- e.g., no masterwork breath mints or masterwork bustiers to improve Diplomacy (although depending on the mood of the table, I might give the latter a bonus on Bluff or Gather Information checks if the race/gender combination were appropriate ;) )

But as I said, IMO...

I feel the same way. But the way things are written, the general MW crafting tools apply to all craft skills.

They don't explicidly say that they don't apply to any skill with specific MW tools like Craft-Alchmey nor do they say that they explicidly apply to Craft-Alchmey.

I would still like and official ruleing.

Sidney
Arvagor
02-16-07, 08:52 PM I would still like and official ruleing.Seeing as it would be a point of contention on a core D&D rule, and not something specific to LG, I doubt you will ever see an "official" ruling (as far as the campaign is concerned).
elliot
07-28-07, 12:33 PM Circumstance bonuses (with exceptions being for same purpose. IE Goggles of Minute Seeing, Magnifying glass) and unnamed bonuses stack with everything, even other circumstance bonuses and unnamed.

The basic idea being that with no alchemy tools, you are brewing the stuff in your kitchen. With a normal set, you have the tools meant to brew alchemical items, giving you a +2 bonus (unnamed). If you get masterwork tools, then you have really good tools meant for the job, giving you a +2 circumstance bonus (for having favorable circumstance because they are so good) and a +2 bonus for having the right tools needed for the job.

And in case anyone wonders where I got this, I had to search the PHB desperately as my DM is a MAJOR rules lawyer and I must be able to justify everything. The information on circmstance bonuses came from the glossary in the PHB and the bonus information from the spells section of stacking bonuses.
Arcane Guyver
07-28-07, 01:53 PM I agree with Arvagor here, though I have to say that the wording of the Alchemist's Lab item entry is incredibly clumsy. They could easily have left off the last two sentences without changing anything.

Edit: As to having Circ bonuses stack, that only works if the Circ bonuses do not arise from the same basic circumstance. An Alchemist's Lab and Masterwork Artisans Tools both grant a +2 Circ bonus for being the perfect tools for the job. Thus, only one would work, and since the alchemist's lab is specifically called out in the core rules, that's the one that should be used.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
El_Cid 02-15-07, 10:28 PM	The PHB states: Alchemist’s Lab: An alchemist’s lab always has the perfect tool for making alchemical items, so it provides a +2 circumstance bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks. It has no bearing on the costs related to the Craft (alchemy) skill. Without this lab, a character with the Craft (alchemy) skill is assumed to have enough tools to use the skill but not enough to get the +2 bonus that the lab provides. Artisan’s Tools: These special tools include the items needed to pursue any craft. Without them, you have to use improvised tools (–2 penalty on Craft checks), if you can do the job at all. Artisan’s Tools, Masterwork: These tools serve the same purpose as artisan’s tools (above), but masterwork artisan’s tools are the perfect tools for the job, so you get a +2 circumstance bonus on Craft checks made with them. Questions: If I have the Craft - Alchemy skill, do I use only the Alchemist’s Lab or can I use the Artisan’s Tools, Masterwork to gain the +2 circumstance bonus on Craft checks made with them? Could I use both and do the circumstance bonus on Craft checks made with them stack? Thanks, Sidney
Arvagor 02-15-07, 10:53 PM	IMO, if the PHB (or another source) describes a tool specific to a particular skill, then that's the one you have to use to gain a bonus in that skill, and the circumstance bonus from a generic tool will not stack with the circumstance bonus from a specific one. And generic tools are subject to the DM's approval -- e.g., no masterwork breath mints or masterwork bustiers to improve Diplomacy (although depending on the mood of the table, I might give the latter a bonus on Bluff or Gather Information checks if the race/gender combination were appropriate ;) ) But as I said, IMO...
ShinAkuma2 02-16-07, 12:18 AM	If you could use them together, they wouldn't stack, as they are circumstance bonuses arising from essentially the same circumstance: Having really good equipment.
El_Cid 02-16-07, 08:58 AM	IMO, if the PHB (or another source) describes a tool specific to a particular skill, then that's the one you have to use to gain a bonus in that skill, and the circumstance bonus from a generic tool will not stack with the circumstance bonus from a specific one. And generic tools are subject to the DM's approval -- e.g., no masterwork breath mints or masterwork bustiers to improve Diplomacy (although depending on the mood of the table, I might give the latter a bonus on Bluff or Gather Information checks if the race/gender combination were appropriate ;) ) But as I said, IMO... I feel the same way. But the way things are written, the general MW crafting tools apply to all craft skills. They don't explicidly say that they don't apply to any skill with specific MW tools like Craft-Alchmey nor do they say that they explicidly apply to Craft-Alchmey. I would still like and official ruleing. Sidney
Arvagor 02-16-07, 08:52 PM	I would still like and official ruleing.Seeing as it would be a point of contention on a core D&D rule, and not something specific to LG, I doubt you will ever see an "official" ruling (as far as the campaign is concerned).
elliot 07-28-07, 12:33 PM	Circumstance bonuses (with exceptions being for same purpose. IE Goggles of Minute Seeing, Magnifying glass) and unnamed bonuses stack with everything, even other circumstance bonuses and unnamed. The basic idea being that with no alchemy tools, you are brewing the stuff in your kitchen. With a normal set, you have the tools meant to brew alchemical items, giving you a +2 bonus (unnamed). If you get masterwork tools, then you have really good tools meant for the job, giving you a +2 circumstance bonus (for having favorable circumstance because they are so good) and a +2 bonus for having the right tools needed for the job. And in case anyone wonders where I got this, I had to search the PHB desperately as my DM is a MAJOR rules lawyer and I must be able to justify everything. The information on circmstance bonuses came from the glossary in the PHB and the bonus information from the spells section of stacking bonuses.
Arcane Guyver 07-28-07, 01:53 PM	I agree with Arvagor here, though I have to say that the wording of the Alchemist's Lab item entry is incredibly clumsy. They could easily have left off the last two sentences without changing anything. Edit: As to having Circ bonuses stack, that only works if the Circ bonuses do not arise from the same basic circumstance. An Alchemist's Lab and Masterwork Artisans Tools both grant a +2 Circ bonus for being the perfect tools for the job. Thus, only one would work, and since the alchemist's lab is specifically called out in the core rules, that's the one that should be used.