Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rerednaw 04-20-07, 12:47 PM	After the resounding success of the Another Evard's Black Tentacles question here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=830246)...*cough* *cough* I'd thought I'd post another spell that I've had some uncertainty about. There are 3 effects to the Glitterdust spell: blinding, revealing invisible, and penalty to hiding. If a creature enters the effect AFTER it is initially cast, is the creature subject to any of the effects? The saving throw (Will) against the blinding it not mentioned to reoccur every round so the implication is no. So is the spell more like a puffball effect? Then again the phrase "all within the area" does not have "when the spell is cast" so one could infer that even after the initial casting, entering the area of effect would subject you to the spell's effects. If that is the case, what about leaving and re-entering the spell area? Anyone?
LachlarlanIII 04-20-07, 01:16 PM	Double post...
LachlarlanIII 04-20-07, 01:16 PM	After the resounding success of the Another Evard's Black Tentacles question here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=830246)...*cough* *cough* I'd thought I'd post another spell that I've had some uncertainty about. There are 3 effects to the Glitterdust spell: blinding, revealing invisible, and penalty to hiding. If a creature enters the effect AFTER it is initially cast, is the creature subject to any of the effects? The saving throw (Will) against the blinding it not mentioned to reoccur every round so the implication is no. So is the spell more like a puffball effect? Then again the phrase "all within the area" does not have "when the spell is cast" so one could infer that even after the initial casting, entering the area of effect would subject you to the spell's effects. If that is the case, what about leaving and re-entering the spell area? Anyone? Isn't Glitterdust is Duration: Instantaneous?
Alpha_Nerd 04-20-07, 01:41 PM	Nope, Durations: 1 round/level It's mind boggling.
Jay_Ibero_911 04-20-07, 02:13 PM	It a glitter explosion. It coats everything in the area, and exists for the duration of the spell. It's not a persistant cloud, the dust settles to the surface of everything in the area, so the worst that can happen when you enter the area that glitterdust went off in is you get some glitter on your feat..
Lupo 04-20-07, 02:20 PM	After the resounding success of the Another Evard's Black Tentacles question here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=830246)...*cough* *cough* I'd thought I'd post another spell that I've had some uncertainty about. There are 3 effects to the Glitterdust spell: blinding, revealing invisible, and penalty to hiding. If a creature enters the effect AFTER it is initially cast, is the creature subject to any of the effects? The saving throw (Will) against the blinding it not mentioned to reoccur every round so the implication is no. So is the spell more like a puffball effect? Then again the phrase "all within the area" does not have "when the spell is cast" so one could infer that even after the initial casting, entering the area of effect would subject you to the spell's effects. If that is the case, what about leaving and re-entering the spell area? Anyone? just checked, PHB and SRD are similar: Glitterdust Conjuration (Creation) Level: Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Area: Creatures and objects within 10-ft.-radius spread Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: Will negates (blinding only) Spell Resistance: No A cloud of golden particles covers everyone and everything in the area, causing creatures to become blinded and visibly outlining invisible things for the duration of the spell. All within the area are covered by the dust, which cannot be removed and continues to sparkle until it fades. Any creature covered by the dust takes a –40 penalty on Hide checks. Material Component: Ground mica. yea the description 1 round/level might be interpreted as an ongoing cloud of golden particles BUT then there would be an stationary cloud that should hamper or block vision, or a reference to any other "cloud" or "smoke" spell. as far as i can remember EVERY table i have played at had the cloud settle instantaneous. ciao martin m.
KShaver 04-20-07, 04:23 PM	yea the description 1 round/level might be interpreted as an ongoing cloud of golden particles BUT then there would be an stationary cloud that should hamper or block vision, or a reference to any other "cloud" or "smoke" spell. as far as i can remember EVERY table i have played at had the cloud settle instantaneous. Most spells give specific accounts of what happens when a character walks into the ongoing area. The lack of such in the spell description is what would seem to indicate that it is more of an instantaneous effect. It could go either way though, and could definately have been written clearer.
katrick 04-20-07, 04:37 PM	All within the area are covered by the dust, which cannot be removed and continues to sparkle until it fades. 15th level Extended 30 rounds. 3 mins. Sculpt it for 40ft So anything Invis entering the area will lose it's Invis/ Concealment, but won't be subject to the Will Save vs. blindness. Katrick
Timlagor 04-20-07, 09:28 PM	0) You could read it as creating an ongoing cloud but 1) I've never seen it done that way 2) It doesn't describe the effect of the ongoing cloud or how it might be dispersed -specifically it doesn't make any mention of entering the area or whether you would have to make a new save every round. 3) Glitterdust is overpowered already! Katrick: I cannot see any possible reason to separate the Save v Blindness from the visibility.
Maesto 04-21-07, 12:16 AM	I've never seen anybody try to argue that it hangs around. What I have seen is people argue that glitterdust doesn't completely remove the miss chance or allow sneak attack on invisible creatures. I'm unconvinced either way on this account.
Munkwunk 04-21-07, 02:14 AM	The duration entry should probably say "Instantaneous, then rounds per level; see text". Since it doesn't, it could certainly be interpreted as a cloud that hangs around for rounds/level and has several ongoing effects, and that it doesn't continue to affect creatures which leave its area. That being said, I believe the way it is most commonly run is the way it was intended to be run, RAW or not.
Timlagor 04-21-07, 07:03 AM	You could not rule that leaving the cloud gets you out of the effect: "cannot be removed" would be totally inappropriate if you could just walk out of it.
KarmaInferno 04-21-07, 10:26 AM	What I have seen is people argue that glitterdust doesn't completely remove the miss chance or allow sneak attack on invisible creatures. I'm unconvinced either way on this account. The argument against sneak attack is that the vague outline of a person is not sufficient to be able to target precisely enough to strike any vitals, especially in combat when the target is turning and moving around. Might be an arm in the way, the target might be facing the opposite direction than you though, etc. Hard to tell with a mass of particles. Miss chance would depend on what the miss chance is from. -karma
katrick 04-21-07, 02:50 PM	0) You could read it as creating an ongoing cloud but 1) I've never seen it done that way 2) It doesn't describe the effect of the ongoing cloud or how it might be dispersed -specifically it doesn't make any mention of entering the area or whether you would have to make a new save every round. 3) Glitterdust is overpowered already! Katrick: I cannot see any possible reason to separate the Save v Blindness from the visibility. A cloud of golden partricles covers everyone and everything in the area,causing creatures to become blinded and visibly outlining invisible things for the duration of the spell. I took that to mean that if nothing is in the square then it falls to the ground, so if you enter that square after the round it was cast then it would only get on your shoes etc, as opposed to hitting you in the face/eyes etc when cast, just my reaction/thinking not a rule based thing. Thinking about it now, it could easily be taken either way, as it's not instantanious the cloud could hang there for the duration?(causing the save) katrick
Timlagor 04-22-07, 07:15 PM	Katrick if it falls to the ground then it will stick there and not come off onto your shoes (which would allow you to be pinpointed easily) since it 'sticks ...and cannot be removed'.
Rerednaw 04-23-07, 10:25 AM	Interesting many have stated how it is run if by RAW and then point out that they don't run it that way. I've run into both interpretations so I was hoping for a FAQ or Dispel Confusion but I guess I'll have to settle for table variation.
bitznarf 04-23-07, 11:24 AM	Well, the RAW is vague on this one. After all, just because the spell doesn't say that the glitter falls to the ground does not mean that it hangs around in the air. Similarly just because the spell doesn't say that the glitter hangs around in the air does not mean that it falls to the ground. Lack of a specific rule in one direction does not mean the opposite is true. After all, nowhere in the rules does it say that one has to sleep. In theory you could run around indefinitely without sleeping. We all know that doesn't make sense though.
dark_poet 04-24-07, 10:00 AM	Interesting many have stated how it is run if by RAW and then point out that they don't run it that way. I've run into both interpretations so I was hoping for a FAQ or Dispel Confusion but I guess I'll have to settle for table variation. Ironically, I think this is a rare instance of the rules being vague but there is close to no table variation. Thus nobody really cares about RAW ;)
Rerednaw 04-24-07, 10:42 AM	Ironically, I think this is a rare instance of the rules being vague but there is close to no table variation. Thus nobody really cares about RAW ;) At RPGA events the interpretations I've run into (after casting but before duration wears off): DM#1: ======= If someone else enters during duration: breaks invis only. DM#2: ======= If someone else enters during duration: all effects (including blinding, etc.) But not if they enter and then re-enter. DM#3: ======= If someone else enters during duration: no effect. DM#4: ======= If someone else enters, exits and the re-enters during duration: all effects. DM#5: ======= If someone else enters during duration: blinding only. DM#6: ======= If someone else enters during duration: hide modifier only. It was only the most recent interpretation (a couple of weeks ago) where I ran into for the first time the 'duration instantaneous, then 1r/lvl if you were in the initial area' ruling.
Timlagor 04-24-07, 11:20 AM	I think your experience has been unique. Only #3 and #4 seem legal interpretations of the RAW though there are certainly things that work like #2. I have never seen (or even considered prior to this thread) anything but #3.
Redfist 04-24-07, 11:42 AM	Agreed - #3 is the only interpretation I've ever seen or considered.
katrick 04-24-07, 01:54 PM	Katrick if it falls to the ground then it will stick there and not come off onto your shoes (which would allow you to be pinpointed easily) since it 'sticks ...and cannot be removed'. yeah,thats why i was pondering either way, if it sticks to the ground and can't be removed does it also stick to the sole of your shoes and can't be removed (sovereign glitterdust) he he I realised my mistake in posting, i meant as they exit the area they would stay lit up but not be subject to the ongoing blindness(thinking of the duration). then a later post made me think differently, now i have no idea. i have only ever seen it used as an invis purge affect, as a sorceror i took See Invis as a longer option and only bought it on scrolls when i got high enough to burn all my 2nds on Alter Self( being a 2nd most people don't bother with the poor DC) katrick
Timlagor 04-24-07, 02:40 PM	See Invis doesn't help your Fighter friend much.
Japangirl 04-24-07, 05:04 PM	The way I've always seen Glitterdust run, and run it myself, is thus: If you are in the area when the spell goes off: you are glittery and possibly blind, depending on if you make the save. No matter where you move to, you are blind for the whole duration because the glitter got in your eyes. If you are out of the area when the spell goes off and then go into the area: no effect. No becoming glittery and no chance of blindness. I think this makes the most sense, because there is a burst of glitter and then it all settles and sticks to whatever it hits, including the ground, so after the inital burst there are no ill effects for entering the area.
Rerednaw 04-24-07, 05:27 PM	The way I've always seen Glitterdust run, and run it myself, is thus: If you are in the area when the spell goes off: you are glittery and possibly blind, depending on if you make the save. No matter where you move to, you are blind for the whole duration because the glitter got in your eyes. If you are out of the area when the spell goes off and then go into the area: no effect. No becoming glittery and no chance of blindness. I think this makes the most sense, because there is a burst of glitter and then it all settles and sticks to whatever it hits, including the ground, so after the inital burst there are no ill effects for entering the area. Fair enough. I'll probably go with this ruling, if I judge a game with it. Hasn't happened to me yet because of the lack of arcanes in our group. I always visualized the spell as more of a bright signal flare that slowly comes down, outlining/blinding the affected area/critters.
Timlagor 04-24-07, 05:37 PM	OK I'm feeling stupid now. I didn't read the Area line: "Area: Creatures and objects within 10-ft.-radius spread" To me that clearly means that it affects the creatures are who are in the spread at the time of casting. It would not be worded like that if the cloud was a persisting effect.