Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rerednaw 08-31-07, 10:45 AM	Because I have finally taken one, I was reading the LGCS on cohorts when something caught my eye. Average Party Level LG adventures are written for ranges of average party levels (APLs). APLs determine the level of challenges you face and rewards you receive. If you are more than two levels away from the APL at which the adventure is being played, you suffer a 50% penalty to GP and XP gained in the adventure. Calculate APL by summing the levels of all characters participating, adding any animals as specified in Chapter 5 of this document. Divide this total by the number of players and round to the nearest whole number, adding one to the result for tables of six characters. and Cohort Inclusion Cohorts may be used only if there are four or five players participating in the adventure. A table must contain at least four players and no more than six PCs. A cohort may only participate in an adventure if there is an open slot at the session and no other RPGA member wishes to participate. If too many players wish to bring cohorts, one or more of players must leave their cohorts at home. If the players cannot agree, the GM is free to rule that no cohorts are allowed. A cohort counts as a PC in every respect. Cohorts are normally controlled by the player. My example in a game with 5 players of level 8 with a level 6 cohort: 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 6 (number of PCs) = 46 Divided by number of players = 46/5 = 9.2 Add one for full party of 6 = 10.2 With 2 cohorts the math is worse: 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 6 + 6 = 44/4 = 11 +1 (full party) = 12 Is that right? I have discovered a cohort is nowhere near as powerful as a full PC. He's got a lower point-buy, far less wealth and can't even benefit from certain PC rules (magic item crafting) that would help bring him up. Plus by this math, he will always be playing a very unhealthy EL+4 to EL+7 with one cohort, EL+6 to EL+9 with two cohorts...
Arvagor 08-31-07, 11:22 AM	Is that right?No, it's not; and the text in the LGCS is slightly misleading. You divide by the number of PCs, so in each of your examples, you should be dividing by 6 (not 5 or 4). Example 1's final # should be 8.66... (round to 9 and you have a choice of APL 8 or 10) Example 2's final # should be 8.33... (round to 8 and you have APL 8 only) The boilerplate text in modules has the correct procedure described (it always uses "characters").
GorTeX 08-31-07, 11:27 AM	you even partially underlined it in your quote: A cohort counts as a PC in every respect. so, with 5x8 + 6 = 46/6 = 7.6 = 8 (round before adding for 6). + 1 = 9..not 10 and with 4x8+2x6 = 44/6 = 7l3 = 7 + 1 = 8
paigeoliver 09-04-07, 01:00 AM	Although cohorts themselves are traditionally weaker than a PC they are often built in a way that synergizes really well with the character they are paired with, making them more powerful than they would seem at first.
clannagh 09-04-07, 01:56 AM	I have discovered a cohort is nowhere near as powerful as a full PC. He's got a lower point-buy, far less wealth and can't even benefit from certain PC rules (magic item crafting) that would help bring him up. Plus by this math, he will always be playing a very unhealthy EL+4 to EL+7 with one cohort, EL+6 to EL+9 with two cohorts... That is why very few people played standard cohorts and the point buy for cohorts was increased in the most recent LGCS. An AR based cohort on the other hand is pretty good. Unicorn cohorts for example make excellent mounts. The Dakon cohort with its 40+ point buy was just plain silly and probably should have had a =2 level adjustment built in.
_metz_ 09-04-07, 02:31 AM	I just got access to a cohort with a built in canceling out of its level adjustment. I was pretty impressed with that. The Dakon cohort was stupid, and really needed a level adjustment, considering all the other decent cohorts have them.
Rerednaw 09-04-07, 10:18 AM	you even partially underlined it in your quote: A cohort counts as a PC in every respect. so, with 5x8 + 6 = 46/6 = 7.6 = 8 (round before adding for 6). + 1 = 9..not 10 and with 4x8+2x6 = 44/6 = 7l3 = 7 + 1 = 8 Having two PC's run by one player does not increase the number of players.
Rerednaw 09-04-07, 10:21 AM	Although cohorts themselves are traditionally weaker than a PC they are often built in a way that synergizes really well with the character they are paired with, making them more powerful than they would seem at first. A party of regular players who play a set team of characters can be really powerful. That doesn't mean that 2 players are forced to play characters with lower point buys and up an extra 2 levels. I doubt that many players would play if being the 5th and 6th person at a table always resulted in that. (I would and I have because I don't mind the challenge of playing up).
solbergb 09-07-07, 12:26 PM	While a cohort is objectively weaker he is usually designed to synergize with the master. Also the coordination between cohort and master is far better than between two PC's because they're run by the same person. My own cohort has "played up" 3-4 levels and still been a strong contributor because of these effects. It does help though, if you make the cohort a class that plays up well ad isn't hugely equipment dependent. A bard or cleric tends to do better than a barbarain.