Post/Author/DateTime	Post
KYOGOTH 07-19-07, 08:35 PM	can a warmage benefit from the arcane disciple feat from the complete divine and how would that work
CdrcJsn 07-19-07, 09:00 PM	Yes they can. They're still limited to one use per spell per day however (according to the Arcane Disciple feat), and they need to have the appropriate wisdom score to cast the spells.
KarmaInferno 07-19-07, 09:58 PM	Arcane Disciple isn't that great in and of itself. One extra spell of each level a day, that you have the Wisdom and level to cast. Especially for a class like Warmage that that is already Multiple Ability Dependant. You already need high Charisma, Dexterity, and possibly Intelligence. Constitution is important in general, for hit points and that Concentration check. You need a little Strength, if nothing else than to be able to wear that armor that almost all Warmages use. Having to add in yet another "need" ability, Wisdom, on top of all those is crippling. Most of the time I see Arcane Disciple used to fulfill prestige class requirements. If you just want extra casting ability there's better ways to go about that. -karma
Mommy was an Orc 07-19-07, 10:32 PM	Arcane Disciple isn't that great in and of itself. One extra spell of each level a day, that you have the Wisdom and level to cast. It can be - you need to use it to adopt another role. A Warmage with the Travel Domain and Oracle Domain is still a Warmage - but he can provide support in a way that a typical Warmage cannot. You also need to figure out a way how to get that 16-17 Wisdom on a regular basis - if you have a 14 Wisdom and you carry around a +2 Wisdom item, you put the item on, you cast the long-term spells, then you take it off and put the Con amulet on. You can also read scrolls of Owl's Wisdom, or at 12th level, get that high level caster to cast it on you - have no Bard or Cleric, but you've got Community Domain? You can cast Heroes' Feast - as long as someone can cast Owl's Wisdom on you for an hour, you can pull it off. All you need is a 12 Wisdom with that capability.
CdrcJsn 07-20-07, 12:19 AM	You can also read scrolls of Owl's Wisdom, or at 12th level, get that high level caster to cast it on you - have no Bard or Cleric, but you've got Community Domain? You can cast Heroes' Feast - as long as someone can cast Owl's Wisdom on you for an hour, you can pull it off. All you need is a 12 Wisdom with that capability. Owl's Wisdom for an hour? 60th level caster? :P Just kidding. Having a periapt of wisdom you can swap out with your con item isn't a bad idea though if you have higher level spells that are long lasting buffs. I once came up with a Warmage/Initiate of the Seven Fold Veil build and it needed the arcane disciple feat for Luck and Protection to make it work. It also got the Travel domain spells added in there around 12th level. I think it was Farlanghn that offered all the correct domains. Basically as others have pointed out, if you want versatility via Arcane Disciple, you're gonna have to pay for it with a higher wisdom and a lower ability score somewhere else. I would probably lower Int since the warmage edge isn't really all that great past APL4.
KYOGOTH 07-20-07, 08:08 AM	Most of the time I see Arcane Disciple used to fulfill prestige class requirements. If you just want extra casting ability there's better ways to go about that. -karma[/QUOTE] what better ways are there for a warmage to expand his spell list without compromising higher level spell access (by multi classing for example)
Mommy was an Orc 07-20-07, 08:14 AM	Owl's Wisdom for an hour? 60th level caster? :P Just kidding. It sounds crazy, but...A Rod of Lesser Extend + a 12th level caster and 2 Pearls 2nd level. Or a 10th level caster and 3 Pearls(say from a Cleric 10 Cohort) It isn't ideal, of course, but it isn't that hard to envision the right party to have the Warmage want to cast this. Say a table of 3 BDFs, a Wizard, the Warmage, and a Druid without a +4 Amulet - it isn't as if the party can't use those items if there is a Cleric casting it at the table.
solbergb 07-20-07, 01:07 PM	Arcane disciple can be worth it if the spells you're getting are good enough. Yes, you take an attribute hit somewhere, and it costs a feat. So it better give back something you really want to do. For example: Air: obscuring mist, wind wall, gaseous form (defensive and anti-grapple spells) animal: various animal controlling spells and summon nature ally spells Alignment: prot alignment, level 4 "smite" spells and the level 7 "word" spells Celerity: longstrider, haste Death: death ward Earth: soften earth and stone, spike stones (the warmage list lacks decent battlefield control spells in the lower levels) Healing: ....healing Knowledge and Oracle: Lots of useful divinations luck: entropic shield, aid, prot energy, free movement..it's all good, all the way up to Miracle Magic: identify, dispel magic, imbue with spell ability, spell resistance, antimagic field...lots of good stuff plant: a bunch of good battlefield control spells+barkskin protection: good defensive spells Strength: enlarge, bull str, magic vestment, spell immunity, righeous might, stoneskin...it's all good if you have melee pretentions or want to do some support magic. travel: longsrider, fly, dim door, teleport....nuff said trickery: invisibility and confusion, poly any object in non-LG War: magic vestment, divine power. nuff said. You can imagine a warmage wanting these spells, even if not very often. Their list is so limited that any versatility seems like a pretty good deal. But it isn't a nobrainer. You need to pay attributes points, a feat, 4 skill points and tie yourself to a deity and its alignment.
CdrcJsn 07-21-07, 05:01 PM	what better ways are there for a warmage to expand his spell list without compromising higher level spell access (by multi classing for example) * You can also take the Warmage alternate class ability in PHB2. Eclectic Learning allows you to learns spells from the wiz/sor list as if they were one level higher.
Jay_Ibero_911 07-21-07, 05:37 PM	* You can also take the Warmage alternate class ability in PHB2. Eclectic Learning allows you to learns spells from the wiz/sor list as if they were one level higher. You need access for that however...
CdrcJsn 07-21-07, 05:43 PM	True. Forgot to mention that. An aside, but most regions are in the middle of metaorg revisions...now might be a good time to ask your local triads if you want to see any of the alternate class features added to em.