Arcane Heirophant levels and wildshape [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Heirophant levels and wildshape [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
clannagh
02-15-07, 08:13 PM I have posted the following in Britts question thread but as the Q&A thread does not permit discussion I have cross posted it here in case people have comments.

**************************************** ****************
Under LG rules ...

Does a character with 3 levels druid and 2 levels Arcane Heirophant qualify for Wildshape ?

In other words does LG require you already have wildshape (level 5 druid) before the AH feature that adds to your wildshape level has any effect or can the AH class feature help you qualify for wildshape ???
Timlagor
02-15-07, 08:21 PM As a judge, I would allow such a character to Wildshape but there wouldn't be any point arguing with a judge who didn't.
Jon_N
02-15-07, 08:45 PM Don't have my book with me to confirm, but I believe that it does as per the AH text under Wildshaping. It says something along the lines of a DRD3/AH2 gets wild shape as a 5th level Druid, and goes on to say that you don't get it if you enter the PrC via a class that doesn't usually get wildshape (such as ranger).

Someone with the book handy able to post the text?
Nerax
02-15-07, 08:57 PM Does a character with 3 levels druid and 2 levels Arcane Heirophant qualify for Wildshape ?

Yes...but you will find a small fraction of DM's that will not let you.
DroidTrooper
02-15-07, 09:02 PM The answer is..... expect table variation. You can find fairly lengthy discussion on this subject on LG boards at:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=701897

The fact is the first sentence implies you don't:

"Wild Shape (Su): If you do not already possess the ability, you gain no new ability to wild shape. "

The remainder of the paragraph implies that you do and the examples that follow bare the second sentence out:

"However, you add your arcane hierophant level to your druid level and gain the wild shape ability of a druid of the resulting level."
clannagh
02-16-07, 12:21 AM Ok .. as pointed out by Arvagor elsewhere the example in RoW shows a Wiz 3/Drd 3/AH 4 shifting as a 7th level druid, even though Drd 3 has no wildshaping ability. So that kinda answers the question.
awroe
02-16-07, 07:29 AM Ok .. as pointed out by Arvagor elsewhere the example in RoW shows a Wiz 3/Drd 3/AH 4 shifting as a 7th level druid, even though Drd 3 has no wildshaping ability. So that kinda answers the question.

Except, of course, that Wiz 3/Drd 3 only has a BAB of +3 and so doesn't qualify for the class at all.

I'd allow it, but Expect Table Variation.
Mommy was an Orc
02-16-07, 08:07 AM There's two ways of looking at it:
Ignore the first sentence and the word 'However' as they have no meaning and are made irrelevant by the rest of the paragraph.
Take the rest of the paragraph as is.
This gets you the interpretation that you do get to Wildshape as is.

or

Only characters who have Wildshape are affected.
However, if you do have Wildshape, here's how it works.
Ignore the example as an edit error.
4th sentence emphasizes the 1st sentence.

-----

Basically, I think it is a choice between throwing out the 1st sentence or throwing out the example characters. And in that instance, rules text should win. And I don't think the intent of the writer is clear here either - that 1st sentence is especially harsh, but the examples contradict it - but examples aren't typically done by the same writer.

And note this is clearly a PrC that was edited, then changed - Rangers don't get Trackless Step.

Just so it is clear, I don't think a Druid 3/AH 2 gets Wildshape.
Mommy was an Orc
02-16-07, 08:13 AM Oh, and another fun Arcane Hierophant thing - the Companion Familiar is an animal companion with certain listed ways that it uses the familiar specials.

i.e. it isn't actually a familiar which means spells like Augment Familiar or Enhance Familiar don't work on it.
Timlagor
02-16-07, 08:45 AM Oh, and another fun Arcane Hierophant thing - the Companion Familiar is an animal companion with certain listed ways that it uses the familiar specials.

i.e. it isn't actually a familiar which means spells like Augment Familiar or Enhance Familiar don't work on it.

You can expect variation on this one too :)
mowaca
02-16-07, 08:48 AM I think we can all agree this question needs to be answered officially. Its a yes/no question (Does a wizard 3/druid 4/ah 1 gain wildshape as a Druid 5?) , and the core confusion is caused by WoTC's rushed edit job. I read in the linked thread that customer service is giving different answers to this question. Is there some way we can get the FAQ writer's attention? Or the Sage?

The Circle could also help us here by using their contacts to find the answer and put it in Dispel Confusion.
Mommy was an Orc
02-16-07, 08:48 AM You can expect variation on this one too :)

Yeah, one of the benefits of the most poorly edited PrC ever.
solbergb
02-16-07, 11:49 AM Yeah, one of the benefits of the most poorly edited PrC ever.

Oh come on. AH doesn't even come close to bear warrior, which actually contradicts itself on how often you can turn into a bear halfway through the description.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
clannagh 02-15-07, 08:13 PM	I have posted the following in Britts question thread but as the Q&A thread does not permit discussion I have cross posted it here in case people have comments. ************************************** ************** Under LG rules ... Does a character with 3 levels druid and 2 levels Arcane Heirophant qualify for Wildshape ? In other words does LG require you already have wildshape (level 5 druid) before the AH feature that adds to your wildshape level has any effect or can the AH class feature help you qualify for wildshape ???
Timlagor 02-15-07, 08:21 PM	As a judge, I would allow such a character to Wildshape but there wouldn't be any point arguing with a judge who didn't.
Jon_N 02-15-07, 08:45 PM	Don't have my book with me to confirm, but I believe that it does as per the AH text under Wildshaping. It says something along the lines of a DRD3/AH2 gets wild shape as a 5th level Druid, and goes on to say that you don't get it if you enter the PrC via a class that doesn't usually get wildshape (such as ranger). Someone with the book handy able to post the text?
Nerax 02-15-07, 08:57 PM	Does a character with 3 levels druid and 2 levels Arcane Heirophant qualify for Wildshape ? Yes...but you will find a small fraction of DM's that will not let you.
DroidTrooper 02-15-07, 09:02 PM	The answer is..... expect table variation. You can find fairly lengthy discussion on this subject on LG boards at: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=701897 The fact is the first sentence implies you don't: "Wild Shape (Su): If you do not already possess the ability, you gain no new ability to wild shape. " The remainder of the paragraph implies that you do and the examples that follow bare the second sentence out: "However, you add your arcane hierophant level to your druid level and gain the wild shape ability of a druid of the resulting level."
clannagh 02-16-07, 12:21 AM	Ok .. as pointed out by Arvagor elsewhere the example in RoW shows a Wiz 3/Drd 3/AH 4 shifting as a 7th level druid, even though Drd 3 has no wildshaping ability. So that kinda answers the question.
awroe 02-16-07, 07:29 AM	Ok .. as pointed out by Arvagor elsewhere the example in RoW shows a Wiz 3/Drd 3/AH 4 shifting as a 7th level druid, even though Drd 3 has no wildshaping ability. So that kinda answers the question. Except, of course, that Wiz 3/Drd 3 only has a BAB of +3 and so doesn't qualify for the class at all. I'd allow it, but Expect Table Variation.
Mommy was an Orc 02-16-07, 08:07 AM	There's two ways of looking at it: Ignore the first sentence and the word 'However' as they have no meaning and are made irrelevant by the rest of the paragraph. Take the rest of the paragraph as is. This gets you the interpretation that you do get to Wildshape as is. or Only characters who have Wildshape are affected. However, if you do have Wildshape, here's how it works. Ignore the example as an edit error. 4th sentence emphasizes the 1st sentence. ----- Basically, I think it is a choice between throwing out the 1st sentence or throwing out the example characters. And in that instance, rules text should win. And I don't think the intent of the writer is clear here either - that 1st sentence is especially harsh, but the examples contradict it - but examples aren't typically done by the same writer. And note this is clearly a PrC that was edited, then changed - Rangers don't get Trackless Step. Just so it is clear, I don't think a Druid 3/AH 2 gets Wildshape.
Mommy was an Orc 02-16-07, 08:13 AM	Oh, and another fun Arcane Hierophant thing - the Companion Familiar is an animal companion with certain listed ways that it uses the familiar specials. i.e. it isn't actually a familiar which means spells like Augment Familiar or Enhance Familiar don't work on it.
Timlagor 02-16-07, 08:45 AM	Oh, and another fun Arcane Hierophant thing - the Companion Familiar is an animal companion with certain listed ways that it uses the familiar specials. i.e. it isn't actually a familiar which means spells like Augment Familiar or Enhance Familiar don't work on it. You can expect variation on this one too :)
mowaca 02-16-07, 08:48 AM	I think we can all agree this question needs to be answered officially. Its a yes/no question (Does a wizard 3/druid 4/ah 1 gain wildshape as a Druid 5?) , and the core confusion is caused by WoTC's rushed edit job. I read in the linked thread that customer service is giving different answers to this question. Is there some way we can get the FAQ writer's attention? Or the Sage? The Circle could also help us here by using their contacts to find the answer and put it in Dispel Confusion.
Mommy was an Orc 02-16-07, 08:48 AM	You can expect variation on this one too :) Yeah, one of the benefits of the most poorly edited PrC ever.
solbergb 02-16-07, 11:49 AM	Yeah, one of the benefits of the most poorly edited PrC ever. Oh come on. AH doesn't even come close to bear warrior, which actually contradicts itself on how often you can turn into a bear halfway through the description.