Arcane Spell Failure For Scrolls [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Spell Failure For Scrolls [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jokem
11-05-06, 12:27 AM If a character casts and arcane spell from a scroll, does arcane spell
failure figure in?
Arvagor
11-05-06, 12:53 AM Yep. DMG, page 238:Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance (such as from armor).
_m_
11-05-06, 07:44 AM Yep. DMG, page 238:

hehe, good ol' arvagor. he has the whole dmg tatooed on his arm for quick reference.
jokem
11-09-06, 05:53 PM Yep. DMG, page 238:

Is it possible to create a scroll with a Still Spell feat built in.

I also wondered what happens if a character casts a spell
like Command using the Silent Spell feat. The caster just
'thinks' it and the target 'knows' what to do if failing the
save?
Arvagor
11-09-06, 07:44 PM Is it possible to create a scroll with a Still Spell feat built in.I don't see why not, but it would have to be crafted and priced as the higher level spell, e.g. a stilled Melf's acid arrow is a 3rd-level spell, has minimum caster level of 5, costs 188 gp and 15 XP to scribe, and retails for 375 gp.

I also wondered what happens if a character casts a spell like Command using the Silent Spell feat. The caster just 'thinks' it and the target 'knows' what to do if failing the
save?All the Silent Spell feat does is remove the verbal component of a spell (if it has one). IMO, if the spell's effect requires/manifests some sort of aural component, then the feat would not eliminate that. In other words, certain spells -- especially those with the [Language-Dependent] descriptor -- are going to generate sound in some form as part of the spell, regardless of whether the verbal component is removed or not -- in the PHB, that means command, geas/quest, message, speak with dead, and suggestion.

N.b., I'm not aware of anything in the RAW that explicitly supports or negates this opinion, but it does feel within the "spirit" of the rules to me...
_m_
11-09-06, 10:11 PM lol, silent spell like... sonic burst... seems a tad odd dont it...
Gaelforcwynd
11-24-06, 09:05 AM I was wondering this yesterday. I am making a Cleric using the Standard Points Buy system with Magic as one of his Domains. I was looking at casting Wizard spells off scrolls depending on his INT. The idea of Arcane Spell Failure due to armour put me off that idea though. Factoring in Metamagic Feats increases the Caster Level to the point where it's hardly worthwhile for this type of character. Wands are better.
Japangirl
11-24-06, 11:47 PM Well, a Silent Soundburst makes sense. You just have to target it outside the silence while you are standing inside of it.

ss
ssss
sssss
sssssss
sssCsss T
ssssss
ssss
ss
s = area of silence
C = caster
T = target
_m_
11-26-06, 05:37 PM Well, a Silent Soundburst makes sense. You just have to target it outside the silence while you are standing inside of it.

ss
ssss
sssss
sssssss
sssCsss T
ssssss
ssss
ss
s = area of silence
C = caster
T = target

oh im sure it can be done... but how do you do sonic damage with a silent sound?
Japangirl
11-26-06, 05:51 PM It's a sound wave outside the range of the creature's ability to hear :). Real life physics to the rescue!
_m_
11-26-06, 06:01 PM It's a sound wave outside the range of the creature's ability to hear :). Real life physics to the rescue!

but thats still noise. kind of by definition sonic damage has to make some noise, at some pitch, of some description.
Japangirl
11-26-06, 06:11 PM You cast it silently but it makes noises outside the area of the silence (ie magically stilled air). You tell the air over there to vibrate in a certain frequency.

How about that?
_m_
11-26-06, 06:15 PM You cast it silently but it makes noises outside the area of the silence (ie magically stilled air). You tell the air over there to vibrate in a certain frequency.

How about that?

perfect. 'oi air! make noise!'
wagnert
11-27-06, 11:47 AM I believe a scroll with Silent spell on it is useless as far as casting silently. As I envision using a scroll, you read the scroll, speaking the words written on the scroll. A memorized Silent spell on the other hand lets you skip the verbal portion of the spell, thus you could cast in a Silence area, or without giving away your location by sound. If you created a scroll of silent magic missile, the caster level would be above the minimum (1) for the spell, but you would still need to read aloud from the scroll, negating the Silent effect.
_m_
11-27-06, 04:56 PM I believe a scroll with Silent spell on it is useless as far as casting silently. As I envision using a scroll, you read the scroll, speaking the words written on the scroll. A memorized Silent spell on the other hand lets you skip the verbal portion of the spell, thus you could cast in a Silence area, or without giving away your location by sound. If you created a scroll of silent magic missile, the caster level would be above the minimum (1) for the spell, but you would still need to read aloud from the scroll, negating the Silent effect.

what if you scribed a silent scroll?
Britt
11-27-06, 04:59 PM Activating a scroll consists of performing the "finishing parts of spellcasting". If the spellcasting wouldn't require V, a scroll of it wouldn't require V.
PaulH
12-06-06, 08:16 PM .. The idea of Arcane Spell Failure due to armour put me off that idea though. Factoring in Metamagic Feats increases the Caster Level to the point where it's hardly worthwhile for this type of character. Wands are better.

Hi

What about Boccob with the Magic/Force Domains?
(Mage Armour 1st Lvl Domain spell)

Cheers
Paul H
clannagh
12-06-06, 08:43 PM I was wondering this yesterday. I am making a Cleric using the Standard Points Buy system with Magic as one of his Domains. I was looking at casting Wizard spells off scrolls depending on his INT. The idea of Arcane Spell Failure due to armour put me off that idea though. Factoring in Metamagic Feats increases the Caster Level to the point where it's hardly worthwhile for this type of character. Wands are better.

You could always go for non somatic spells.

Off the top of my head spells that have no somatic component would include things like flare, light, blindness, feather fall, ventriloquism, true strike, blur, darkness, knock, displacement, suggestion, mass suggestion, dimension door, lesser geas, geas, shout, teleport.
Shieldhart91
12-10-06, 04:41 AM Here's a question: what about wands? If a Rogue has Use Magic Device and utilizes a wand in combat, does an Arcane Spell Failure chance apply?
Arvagor
12-10-06, 10:39 AM Here's a question: what about wands? If a Rogue has Use Magic Device and utilizes a wand in combat, does an Arcane Spell Failure chance apply?No. Wands use the spell trigger activation method, which only requires knowledge of the spell in question, but no components, gestures, etc., so ASF doesn't apply (the FAQ confirms this; page 31 of the 11/22/06 version).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jokem 11-05-06, 12:27 AM	If a character casts and arcane spell from a scroll, does arcane spell failure figure in?
Arvagor 11-05-06, 12:53 AM	Yep. DMG, page 238:Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance (such as from armor).
_m_ 11-05-06, 07:44 AM	Yep. DMG, page 238: hehe, good ol' arvagor. he has the whole dmg tatooed on his arm for quick reference.
jokem 11-09-06, 05:53 PM	Yep. DMG, page 238: Is it possible to create a scroll with a Still Spell feat built in. I also wondered what happens if a character casts a spell like Command using the Silent Spell feat. The caster just 'thinks' it and the target 'knows' what to do if failing the save?
Arvagor 11-09-06, 07:44 PM	Is it possible to create a scroll with a Still Spell feat built in.I don't see why not, but it would have to be crafted and priced as the higher level spell, e.g. a stilled Melf's acid arrow is a 3rd-level spell, has minimum caster level of 5, costs 188 gp and 15 XP to scribe, and retails for 375 gp. I also wondered what happens if a character casts a spell like Command using the Silent Spell feat. The caster just 'thinks' it and the target 'knows' what to do if failing the save?All the Silent Spell feat does is remove the verbal component of a spell (if it has one). IMO, if the spell's effect requires/manifests some sort of aural component, then the feat would not eliminate that. In other words, certain spells -- especially those with the [Language-Dependent] descriptor -- are going to generate sound in some form as part of the spell, regardless of whether the verbal component is removed or not -- in the PHB, that means command, geas/quest, message, speak with dead, and suggestion. N.b., I'm not aware of anything in the RAW that explicitly supports or negates this opinion, but it does feel within the "spirit" of the rules to me...
_m_ 11-09-06, 10:11 PM	lol, silent spell like... sonic burst... seems a tad odd dont it...
Gaelforcwynd 11-24-06, 09:05 AM	I was wondering this yesterday. I am making a Cleric using the Standard Points Buy system with Magic as one of his Domains. I was looking at casting Wizard spells off scrolls depending on his INT. The idea of Arcane Spell Failure due to armour put me off that idea though. Factoring in Metamagic Feats increases the Caster Level to the point where it's hardly worthwhile for this type of character. Wands are better.
Japangirl 11-24-06, 11:47 PM	Well, a Silent Soundburst makes sense. You just have to target it outside the silence while you are standing inside of it. ss ssss sssss sssssss sssCsss T ssssss ssss ss s = area of silence C = caster T = target
_m_ 11-26-06, 05:37 PM	Well, a Silent Soundburst makes sense. You just have to target it outside the silence while you are standing inside of it. ss ssss sssss sssssss sssCsss T ssssss ssss ss s = area of silence C = caster T = target oh im sure it can be done... but how do you do sonic damage with a silent sound?
Japangirl 11-26-06, 05:51 PM	It's a sound wave outside the range of the creature's ability to hear :). Real life physics to the rescue!
_m_ 11-26-06, 06:01 PM	It's a sound wave outside the range of the creature's ability to hear :). Real life physics to the rescue! but thats still noise. kind of by definition sonic damage has to make some noise, at some pitch, of some description.
Japangirl 11-26-06, 06:11 PM	You cast it silently but it makes noises outside the area of the silence (ie magically stilled air). You tell the air over there to vibrate in a certain frequency. How about that?
_m_ 11-26-06, 06:15 PM	You cast it silently but it makes noises outside the area of the silence (ie magically stilled air). You tell the air over there to vibrate in a certain frequency. How about that? perfect. 'oi air! make noise!'
wagnert 11-27-06, 11:47 AM	I believe a scroll with Silent spell on it is useless as far as casting silently. As I envision using a scroll, you read the scroll, speaking the words written on the scroll. A memorized Silent spell on the other hand lets you skip the verbal portion of the spell, thus you could cast in a Silence area, or without giving away your location by sound. If you created a scroll of silent magic missile, the caster level would be above the minimum (1) for the spell, but you would still need to read aloud from the scroll, negating the Silent effect.
_m_ 11-27-06, 04:56 PM	I believe a scroll with Silent spell on it is useless as far as casting silently. As I envision using a scroll, you read the scroll, speaking the words written on the scroll. A memorized Silent spell on the other hand lets you skip the verbal portion of the spell, thus you could cast in a Silence area, or without giving away your location by sound. If you created a scroll of silent magic missile, the caster level would be above the minimum (1) for the spell, but you would still need to read aloud from the scroll, negating the Silent effect. what if you scribed a silent scroll?
Britt 11-27-06, 04:59 PM	Activating a scroll consists of performing the "finishing parts of spellcasting". If the spellcasting wouldn't require V, a scroll of it wouldn't require V.
PaulH 12-06-06, 08:16 PM	.. The idea of Arcane Spell Failure due to armour put me off that idea though. Factoring in Metamagic Feats increases the Caster Level to the point where it's hardly worthwhile for this type of character. Wands are better. Hi What about Boccob with the Magic/Force Domains? (Mage Armour 1st Lvl Domain spell) Cheers Paul H
clannagh 12-06-06, 08:43 PM	I was wondering this yesterday. I am making a Cleric using the Standard Points Buy system with Magic as one of his Domains. I was looking at casting Wizard spells off scrolls depending on his INT. The idea of Arcane Spell Failure due to armour put me off that idea though. Factoring in Metamagic Feats increases the Caster Level to the point where it's hardly worthwhile for this type of character. Wands are better. You could always go for non somatic spells. Off the top of my head spells that have no somatic component would include things like flare, light, blindness, feather fall, ventriloquism, true strike, blur, darkness, knock, displacement, suggestion, mass suggestion, dimension door, lesser geas, geas, shout, teleport.
Shieldhart91 12-10-06, 04:41 AM	Here's a question: what about wands? If a Rogue has Use Magic Device and utilizes a wand in combat, does an Arcane Spell Failure chance apply?
Arvagor 12-10-06, 10:39 AM	Here's a question: what about wands? If a Rogue has Use Magic Device and utilizes a wand in combat, does an Arcane Spell Failure chance apply?No. Wands use the spell trigger activation method, which only requires knowledge of the spell in question, but no components, gestures, etc., so ASF doesn't apply (the FAQ confirms this; page 31 of the 11/22/06 version).