Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jay_Ibero_911 03-21-06, 09:23 PM	I want to know so I know what to get for my riding dog. If niether is core, then I'm stuck with leather if I want no armor check penalty. If masterwork and +1 barding are considered core, then studded leather.
Nerax 03-21-06, 10:08 PM	I am perty sure that it is core access. I haven't read anything that would suggest different.
haferka 03-21-06, 10:20 PM	Core. As long as you are talking about barding/armor from the PH. Armor/Barding from ANY other source requires explicit access to Masterwork and/or +1 versions. So, if you find access to Dwarven Plate you can get a set of Dwarven Plate Barding, but unless the access specificly says Masterwork... its just the mundane version, and thus can NEVER be enchanted.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-21-06, 10:56 PM	Cool, +1 studded leather barding it is then.
Lomiat 03-21-06, 11:43 PM	I have a question about the cost of barding. I know the PHB states that barding costs X times more than the humanoid version of the armor. Does that mean the base cost is X times more? So that masterwork barding is still only 150 gp plus X times base cost? Or does that mean that masterwork and magical barding are X times more expensive than masterwork and magical humanoid armor? Wish I had the numbers on-hand to make sense of this... Example: If a chain shirt is 100 gp and a masterwork chain shirt is 250 gp, (if X = 4 times) is masterwork chain shirt barding 550 gp or 1000 gp? Get the chain shirt enchanted to +1 and it costs 1250. Would +1 chain shirt barding (at x4) be 1550 or 5000? I expect the base cost multiplies, not the masterwork or the enchantment, but I'm not certain. Thanks.
paigeoliver 03-22-06, 12:52 AM	The cost of magical enchantments and masterwork quality doesn't change because of the size, so it is only the barding itself that costs more.
kjenks 03-22-06, 08:16 AM	Cool, +1 studded leather barding it is then. If it's a riding dog "trained for war" it is proficient in armor (per the MM description of the Animal type) so you could buy better armor.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-22-06, 11:13 PM	Yes, well, "trained for war" means having the warbeast template, which I can't get without access. Just to get the trip attack requires using 2 trick slots as far as I understand...
haferka 03-23-06, 02:11 AM	Yes, well, "trained for war" means having the warbeast template, which I can't get without access. Just to get the trip attack requires using 2 trick slots as far as I understand... WRONG... "Trained for War" is a general purpose from the PH. its just a collection of tricks. They really need to errata the handle animal tricks.. I believe there should be tricks for armor proficiency, otherwise the animals should suffer the non-proficiency penalties like players... A warhorse, & warpony are commonly trained with the "combat riding" purpose, which encompases all the same tricks from "trained for war"... thus those 2 animals have proficiency with barding.
Namarus 03-23-06, 12:53 PM	Core. As long as you are talking about barding/armor from the PH. Armor/Barding from ANY other source requires explicit access to Masterwork and/or +1 versions. So, if you find access to Dwarven Plate you can get a set of Dwarven Plate Barding, but unless the access specificly says Masterwork... its just the mundane version, and thus can NEVER be enchanted. Actually, I've previously been told by my triad that this interpretation is wrong. Unless the armour access for dwarven plate includes barding you cannot get it in a barding version. For example. If you found "Mithril Shirt" or "Mithril Chainmail" on your AR. You cannot buy "Mithril Shirt Barding" or "Mithril Chain Barding". However, if you have access "Mithril" you could buy the barding.
kegdrainer 03-23-06, 01:01 PM	If you are playing a centaur and get access to mithral chain shirt, is that armor or barding?
Howie23 03-23-06, 01:24 PM	WRONG... "Trained for War" is a general purpose from the PH. its just a collection of tricks. Unfortunately, Trained for War is an undefined term. It appears in the Monster Manual, but not in the PH. There is no listing for the tricks that would make an animal trained for war, or even that _any_ set of tricks is what makes an animal trained for war. They really need to errata the handle animal tricks.. I believe there should be tricks for armor proficiency, otherwise the animals should suffer the non-proficiency penalties like players... I agree that there needs to be some clarification with this. Armor Proficiency is derived through the appropriate feats (light, medium, heavy) for all animals that are not somehow "trained for war." If the animal doesn't have the proficiency, they _do_ have the same non-proficiency penalty that a character gets. A warhorse, & warpony are commonly trained with the "combat riding" purpose, which encompases all the same tricks from "trained for war"... thus those 2 animals have proficiency with barding. Nope. Again, there is no identification of tricks that makes them trained for war, so there can be no comparison to that list to the combat riding list. What we know are that warhorses and warponies "can be ridden easily into combat," that riding dogs are "brave in combat like a warhorse," that warhorses and riding dogs require no further training via tricks to bear riders into combat. Mind you, I think your position is a reasonable one within the spirit of the rules, just not one that is supported in the rigorous fashion that you suggest. Common sense tells us that there should be some relationship here, but that relationship isn't spelled out. The result is table variance. As I player, I understand that variance exists, armor my animals in relatively light barding, and take the armor check penalty. This is a conservative path, but it means I'm not relying on a particular interpretation. It means I haven't spent big money on full plate barding and expect my horse to be able to attack without penalty. It means that I am comfortable that I am not misrepresenting the rules to my advantage. Others might choose a different path to take. David
Howie23 03-23-06, 01:38 PM	Yes, well, "trained for war" means having the warbeast template, which I can't get without access. Just to get the trip attack requires using 2 trick slots as far as I understand... Nah, The warbeast template (Monster Manual II) specifically identifies itself as being different than the "war template" that warhorses and similar creatures have. It goes so far as to say that the warbeast template cannot be added to a creature with the "war template." Note that the "war template" is never defined anyway, nor equated to "trained for war." David
Arvagor 03-23-06, 04:14 PM	If you are playing a centaur and get access to mithral chain shirt, is that armor or barding? Armor.