Post/Author/DateTime	Post
_m_ 01-15-07, 08:08 AM	ok, so the animal lord has a problem. a birdlords wild aspect grants her wings, and hence, flight a birdlords pre req is improved flight improved flight requires flight as a movement speed flight as a movement speed requires said wings. so... u need 2 be a lvl 3 birdlord b4 you can take the feat which qualifies you to become a birdlord... strike anyone else as a problem?
Puggle Halfwine 01-15-07, 08:32 AM	That does strike my as one heck of a problem, yeah.
RedKnightofKet 01-15-07, 10:44 AM	That's why I like my horse lord build. Go, Horses! :D
Mommy was an Orc 01-15-07, 11:03 AM	ok, so the animal lord has a problem. a birdlords wild aspect grants her wings, and hence, flight a birdlords pre req is improved flight improved flight requires flight as a movement speed flight as a movement speed requires said wings. That's not quite right. Improved Flight requires the ability to have flight as a movement speed, not that you have it all the time. Centaur 6/Monk 2/Tattoo'd Monk 1/Bird Lord X. Tattoo'd Monk lets the Centaur use Alter Self to turn into a Gargoyle, which has a flight speed. Birdlord lets the Centaur grow wings as a Centaur ;) Animal Lord is one of those poorly edited classes in Complete Adventurer - if you notice, Horse Lords don't get Ride as a class skill. So the RedKnightofKet rides really fast, but he keeps falling off his horse...
clannagh 01-15-07, 12:37 PM	yah i was originally looking at birdy lord for my dire eagle mounted archer so she can talk to her chook but that little loop hole ruined it another really stupid one is devoted tracker .. you basically need to take a level of ranger and stuff the paladin progression to qualify for the feat that then lets you take more ranger without it stuffing your paladin progression - if you still had one ... .. smart huh :)
Mommy was an Orc 01-15-07, 01:24 PM	another really stupid one is devoted tracker .. you basically need to take a level of ranger and stuff the paladin progression to qualify for the feat that then lets you take more ranger without it stuffing your paladin progression - if you still had one ... .. smart huh :) I wouldn't say that. Devoted Tracker is a Mount-oriented feat - a Paladin who is focused on having a good Mount does pretty well with them. Human 1: Ranger 1: Track, Mounted Combat, Power Attack 2: Paladin 1 3: Paladin 2: Ride-By-Attack 4: Paladin 3 5: Paladin 4 6: Paladin 5: Skill Focus(Handle Animal) 7: Beastmaster 1 At that point, you've got an 8 HD Horse when the regular Paladin only has a 6 HD Horse. And instead of being limited to Paladin skills, you instead are going to have a set of Ranger skills that you can advance from then on - Wild Plains Outrider should be the next 3 levels and after that it is anything that advances the animal companion part.
clannagh 01-15-07, 05:59 PM	I wouldn't say that. Devoted Tracker is a Mount-oriented feat - a Paladin who is focused on having a good Mount does pretty well with them. Human 1: Ranger 1: Track, Mounted Combat, Power Attack 2: Paladin 1 3: Paladin 2: Ride-By-Attack 4: Paladin 3 5: Paladin 4 6: Paladin 5: Skill Focus(Handle Animal) 7: Beastmaster 1 At that point, you've got an 8 HD Horse when the regular Paladin only has a 6 HD Horse. And instead of being limited to Paladin skills, you instead are going to have a set of Ranger skills that you can advance from then on - Wild Plains Outrider should be the next 3 levels and after that it is anything that advances the animal companion part. OK .. reviewing the rules that will work downside is the beast master kills of the paladn track but that may not be a biggie
RedKnightofKet 01-15-07, 06:24 PM	Hadn't considered that.... good thing he's a Barbarian in his own right....;) Animal Lord is one of those poorly edited classes in Complete Adventurer - if you notice, Horse Lords don't get Ride as a class skill. So the RedKnightofKet rides really fast, but he keeps falling off his horse... Mommy, you forgot to include the Devoted Tracker feat. If you do Paladin 5 to start, and take BM at 6th, you can take Devoted Tracker then I wouldn't say that. Devoted Tracker is a Mount-oriented feat - a Paladin who is focused on having a good Mount does pretty well with them. Human 1: Ranger 1: Track, Mounted Combat, Power Attack 2: Paladin 1 3: Paladin 2: Ride-By-Attack 4: Paladin 3 5: Paladin 4 6: Paladin 5: Skill Focus(Handle Animal) 7: Beastmaster 1 At that point, you've got an 8 HD Horse when the regular Paladin only has a 6 HD Horse. And instead of being limited to Paladin skills, you instead are going to have a set of Ranger skills that you can advance from then on - Wild Plains Outrider should be the next 3 levels and after that it is anything that advances the animal companion part. Clannagh, If you look carefully at Devoted Tracker, it doesn't say that the animal companion has to come from the ranger levels. In fact, ranger isn't even required. As I said above, you can take the feat after Paladin 5/BM 1; just take Track early in the build. As for the animal companion part says: "if you have both the special mount and animal companion class features..." While the smite and wild empathy abilities need the paladin and ranger levels, there's nothing saying that the mount and companion ones need to be from those classes. Cannot see that working until the ranger reaches 4 it does not get an EDL and hence the beastmaster animal is not also a ranger animal companian and is NOT counted towards your special mount .. you will ahve two animals the mount and the BM companian.
_metz_ 01-15-07, 06:26 PM	I remember this discussion yesterday m. and yes I am finally on your boards hehe *pokes m a few times then runs off before he shows up how few rules I actually know But yes, does seem rather pointless :)
_m_ 01-15-07, 06:57 PM	I remember this discussion yesterday m. and yes I am finally on your boards hehe *pokes m a few times then runs off before he shows up how few rules I actually know But yes, does seem rather pointless :) hi metz *hug*. i knew you couldn't keep away from me. no1 can *group hug*. ... why are you a scorpion?
Arvagor 01-15-07, 07:00 PM	why are you a scorpion?Perhaps he was one of the blasphemers present at the downfall of Sulm?
RedKnightofKet 01-15-07, 07:01 PM	can't.....resist..... m must be using some of that satanic magic (see the main boards) Then again, if this is the result, I'm not opposed to it - I'll auto-fail that save! ;) :D *joins the group hug* hi metz *hug*. i knew you couldn't keep away from me. no1 can *group hug*. ... why are you a scorpion?
Mommy was an Orc 01-15-07, 07:09 PM	If you look carefully at Devoted Tracker, it doesn't say that the animal companion has to come from the ranger levels. In fact, ranger isn't even required. As I said above, you can take the feat after Paladin 5/BM 1; just take Track early in the build. As for the animal companion part says: You need Ranger - how are you getting the prereq of a favored enemy?
Arvagor 01-15-07, 07:13 PM	That's not quite right. Improved Flight requires the ability to have flight as a movement speed, not that you have it all the time. Centaur 6/Monk 2/Tattoo'd Monk 1/Bird Lord X.Mommy, Mommy... Why do you guys make it so difficult? :) 7 levels of druid (or 5 of druid and 2 of something granting BAB+2) gets you into Bird Lord at 8th not 10th. You also presume that a given class has to allow everyone in, when it seems just as appropriate for a DM to limit it to creatures such as raptorans... Animal Lord is one of those poorly edited classes in Complete Adventurer - if you notice, Horse Lords don't get Ride as a class skill. So the RedKnightofKet rides really fast, but he keeps falling off his horse...I don't think that's the purpose of the Animal Lord class -- it's not a class, IMO, to exploit the animal that you favor (that's what Beastmaster does), but a class to allow you to be more like that animal...
_m_ 01-15-07, 07:21 PM	Mommy, Mommy... Why do you guys make it so difficult? :) 7 levels of druid (or 5 of druid and 2 of something granting BAB+2) gets you into Bird Lord at 8th not 10th. You also presume that a given class has to allow everyone in, when it seems just as appropriate for a DM to limit it to creatures such as raptorans... I don't think that's the purpose of the Animal Lord class -- it's not a class, IMO, to exploit the animal that you favor (that's what Beastmaster does), but a class to allow you to be more like that animal... indeed. the thing about it is that it would be cool for classes who CANT wild shape. liek, a ranger fighter with WINGS would be COOL! or a grapple monkey who became a monk. a bloodhound wolflord. you get the idea. if i could already wildshape into a flying creature, liked i care that i could grow wings. the pre-req needs to be fixed. quite clearly the birdlord ability is not gonna be alot of use to something that can already fly.
RedKnightofKet 01-15-07, 07:24 PM	You don't need favored enemy. The requirements are: Track, smite evil, wild empathy. You can take Track at, say, 1st level, and wild empathy is a class feature of BM. It does smell cheesy, but it's there. :) You need Ranger - how are you getting the prereq of a favored enemy?
clannagh 01-15-07, 07:34 PM	You don't need favored enemy. The requirements are: Track, smite evil, wild empathy. You can take Track at, say, 1st level, and wild empathy is a class feature of BM. It does smell cheesy, but it's there. :) indeed .. and a quick review of classes like cavallier suggest they will still add to paladin mount levels even if the beastmaster has stopped the actual paladin track if you could just taken the beastmaster animal choices as a mount :) .. oh well, just have to be happy with extreme rather than ludicrous cheese
Mommy was an Orc 01-16-07, 12:20 AM	I don't think that's the purpose of the Animal Lord class -- it's not a class, IMO, to exploit the animal that you favor (that's what Beastmaster does), but a class to allow you to be more like that animal... Horselord gives you a bonus to the speed of a horse you're riding. So you ride faster and fall off more...
Arvagor 01-16-07, 01:22 AM	Horselord gives you a bonus to the speed of a horse you're riding [...] ... or the same speed boost to the horselord himself...
_m_ 01-16-07, 01:24 AM	... or the same speed boost to the horselord himself... maybe a centaur horselord would be... funny. but by and large, the animal lord class makes you more like the animal in question, especially the wild aspect.
Arvagor 01-16-07, 01:40 AM	maybe a centaur horselord would be... funny.Actually, I think a centaur horselord makes absolute sense -- he's embracing his "inner horse", so-to-speak...
_m_ 01-16-07, 01:50 AM	Actually, I think a centaur horselord makes absolute sense -- he's embracing his "inner horse", so-to-speak... i know, how funny would it be! im so glad that they cant take mounted combat crap like mm centaurs.
clannagh 01-16-07, 09:04 PM	i know, how funny would it be! im so glad that they cant take mounted combat crap like mm centaurs. Its actually confusion with the "Races of Faerun" centaurs that are the real problem .. count as mounted and lots of other good stuff.
_m_ 01-16-07, 10:47 PM	Its actually confusion with the "Races of Faerun" centaurs that are the real problem .. count as mounted and lots of other good stuff. that would make for some fairly rediculous cavalier style large centaur lancers.