Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kjenks 02-03-06, 11:22 AM	"Permanent" (but dispellable) spells Ring of Spell Storing Ring of Counterspells Spell storing weapons It would be nice -- and it would shorten the start-up time for high-level tables -- if we could have a piece of paper or other mechanism which lists this kind of effect that carries over from scenario to scenario.
Moryath 02-03-06, 11:33 AM	"Permanent" (but dispellable) spells Ring of Spell Storing Ring of Counterspells Spell storing weapons It would be nice -- and it would shorten the start-up time for high-level tables -- if we could have a piece of paper or other mechanism which lists this kind of effect that carries over from scenario to scenario. They don't carry over. They start every mod empty. The best you can hope for is that the DM either lets you seek out and pay for an NPC to fill it up for you like in the rules for NPC spellcasting, or you have 2-3 days of "travel time" at the start written into the mod with your party in which to get the party Cleric or Wizard to fill you up. Otherwise, you're either making every DM sign off on the spells at the end of every mod, or else you're having players come to your table claiming "oh yeah, my last table we had a guy who was APL+2 and he cast his highest spell into it for me" every time.
kjenks 02-03-06, 12:05 PM	They don't carry over. They start every mod empty. I'm proposing that they should carry over, with a simple mechanism to document that.
RanielK 02-03-06, 12:32 PM	I'm proposing that they should carry over, with a simple mechanism to document that. Agreed. We have the MIL which is already used to prove we have bought and paid for magic items (coupled with the MIC if we created them ourselves). A section there or a similar sheet which lists which AR the spell was cast on and the spell listed in the Notes section and signed off by the DM would be appropriate. We already have instances where the DM can say "wait, where did you get that?" and a manner to resolve it. The MIL has AR FOUND/PURCHASED/LOST. Besides, it just makes sense. Are we to honestly believe that a wizard who wouldn't get out of bed before casting mage armor has realy gone through hours/days of box text to get hit by a box text assault would mystically "forget" to cast the spells he casts on himself in his sleep. Some judges are lenient and allow the players to either interupt their intro to the mod with 10 minutes of "and I cast this, and I cast that, and look here, I have this so that goes into it . . . ." or allow the response to "its surprise round. You can't act. Does 20 hit you?" be "I cast mage armor every morning, so no it doesn't." If a judge is already looking at MIC's before game starts, and probably checking MILs and character sheets with a quick once over to ensure nothing untoward jumps out, how does adding another line to a MIL or another type of MIC (or adjustment of the current MIC to allow for casting of long duration spells) hurt? Miles
JamesMaissen 02-03-06, 01:15 PM	"Permanent" (but dispellable) spells Ring of Spell Storing Ring of Counterspells Spell storing weapons It would be nice -- and it would shorten the start-up time for high-level tables -- if we could have a piece of paper or other mechanism which lists this kind of effect that carries over from scenario to scenario. With the tracking that we do in this game, adding this on would not be hard to do. Also such a form could be used to track curses and favors giving wierd bonuses. How many times have you (or seen someone a table you were at that has) forgotten either a wierd curse or (more likely) a favor that could have saved a character? This would be a boon to that as well as a quick reference for judges. -James
JohnduBois 02-03-06, 01:24 PM	Documentation for curses and benefits (especially benefits and favors) doesn't have to be required by the campaign to exist. I keep the following informal lists for each of my PC's: 1. Things I have to tell the DM at the start of the adventure (minions of Iuz must target me and have a 5% chance to get true strike, there's a 50% chance that cats will attack me, I detect as evil, I have to roll a d20 for the property I own, I'm in the following meta-orgs) 2. A list of modules the PC has played, sorted by year and core/meta/regional. 3. Weapon access 4. Armor access 5. Wondrous item access 6. Expendable items (wands, scrolls, etc) 7. Which potentially hazardous circumstances I have benefits to deal with. 8. "Extra" effects I can use (the spell-like abilities from It Never Rains in Nyrond are in this category) It's a lot of paperwork to continually update, but it saves a lot of in-game time leafing through fifty AR's for stuff.
JamesMaissen 02-03-06, 01:41 PM	"Permanent" (but dispellable) spells Ring of Spell Storing Ring of Counterspells Spell storing weapons It would be nice -- and it would shorten the start-up time for high-level tables -- if we could have a piece of paper or other mechanism which lists this kind of effect that carries over from scenario to scenario. With the tracking that we do in this game, adding this on would not be hard to do. Also such a form could be used to track curses and favors giving wierd bonuses. How many times have you (or seen someone a table you were at that has) forgotten either a wierd curse or (more likely) a favor that could have saved a character? This would be a boon to that as well as a quick reference for judges. -James
Nutation 02-03-06, 01:41 PM	> "Permanent" (but dispellable) spells > Ring of Spell Storing > Ring of Counterspells > Spell storing weapons I would disagree with this, except that we have Leomund's Secret Chest. Contingency doesn't carry over to the next game, neither does Word of Recall. Why does LSC? It feels like a set of ad hoc decisions. I don't want the wrap-up portion of each game to turn into a buffing/refill frenzy, but a consistent policy on what effects carry over could certainly include some or all of the quoted list.
makem 02-03-06, 02:46 PM	Of course there could be a "Yesterday" clause put in every mod. Basically something that says 'What did you do yesterday that you do standard for each day?' and this would carry over into the mod from that point. It would be easy and not add much if any extra paperwork. My 2 cp
Mattastrophic 02-03-06, 04:05 PM	Well, though it makes sense... I can see it getting very out of control very quickly. Charm Monster has a duration of days/level. Dominate Person just needs to be renewed to keep functioning. Those examples alone should be enough to prove my point. -Matt "Yeah, I'm being followed by a small army of spellcasters that I've Dominated..."
A'Talsen 02-03-06, 04:16 PM	You are making the assumption that creatures or objects that are not part of your character's equipment will also carry over between games. Obviously those would not. Only effects cast on your PC and/or placed on *or into) items owned by your PC would carry over. Michael "Fish" Murphy Well, though it makes sense... I can see it getting very out of control very quickly. Charm Monster has a duration of days/level. Dominate Person just needs to be renewed to keep functioning. Those examples alone should be enough to prove my point. -Matt "Yeah, I'm being followed by a small army of spellcasters that I've Dominated..."
Timlagor 02-06-06, 07:49 AM	You are making the assumption that creatures or objects that are not part of your character's equipment will also carry over between games. Obviously those would not. Only effects cast on your PC and/or placed on *or into) items owned by your PC would carry over. Michael "Fish" Murphy I'd like to see this. I would implement it by simply requiring an initialled/signed note on the previous AR -no extra forms. Anyone want to suggest a wording that could go into the LGCS?
Iswald 02-06-06, 09:35 AM	Between reading the blurb for the mod and actually starting it, a judge could simply ask players what spells they normally have cast. Perhaps it wouldn't help with spell storing items, but it would let PCs explain their daily castings.
Timlagor 02-06-06, 10:02 AM	Between reading the blurb for the mod and actually starting it, a judge could simply ask players what spells they normally have cast. Perhaps it wouldn't help with spell storing items, but it would let PCs explain their daily castings. This shouldn't be any more problematic than allowing casters to have prepared spells that day. I doubt anyone's has suggested that Wizards and Clerics start the day with no spells memorised and Sorcerors must spend an hour meditating before they have any usable slots. This really has never been an issue in my experience. It looks more like a problem with DMs than anything else. I'd still like spell effects with long durations or storage to be recorable in the play notes.
solbergb 02-06-06, 12:21 PM	Between reading the blurb for the mod and actually starting it, a judge could simply ask players what spells they normally have cast. Perhaps it wouldn't help with spell storing items, but it would let PCs explain their daily castings. That's done routinely anyway, by any caster who always casts some long duration spells every day (sometimes 24x7, especially spont casters). It does bug me that, for example, my arcane archer with 1 level of wizard can't buy a ring of spell storing and fill it up on a quiet day with the std action spells he likes to have handy...and then the rest of the time fill his head with the swift action spells he uses in combats. It isn't like on quiet days I'll be using those slots. Instead, his only real option is to scribe scrolls and need a full round action (draw scroll, read it) instead of std to use the spells. Since many adventures begin and end on the same day, a ring of spell storing would actually hurt his abilities, since the first day would be spent feeding it, and the spells that go in it are incompatable with his normal load (so pearls of power don't help). To a lesser extent, rings of counterspell have similar issues, at least in the levels where the spell that goes into it comes from one of your higher tier spell slots, which are fairly precious.
kjenks 02-21-06, 11:33 PM	"Permanent" (but dispellable) spells Ring of Spell Storing Ring of Counterspells Spell storing weapons It would be nice -- and it would shorten the start-up time for high-level tables -- if we could have a piece of paper or other mechanism which lists this kind of effect that carries over from scenario to scenario. This topic was not covered in the final LGCS 5.
Simpi 02-22-06, 04:42 AM	Between reading the blurb for the mod and actually starting it, a judge could simply ask players what spells they normally have cast. Perhaps it wouldn't help with spell storing items, but it would let PCs explain their daily castings. It's not DMs duty to remind players if they wish to do something like casting spells. Heck, I once ran a table where cleric, when first fight started, said 'DM, I forgot to add the effects of Heroes Feast to us'. So at that point I said that they had not casted it at any point and the cleric promptly said that 'But heroes feast is standard procedure for our level anyway. We would have done it this morning'. Naturally I didn't give them those bonuses. If they forget to cast it, thats players problem, not mine. S.H, the guy from Naerie
Iswald 02-22-06, 10:25 AM	It's not DMs duty to remind players if they wish to do something like casting spells. Did you give the players an opportunity to say anything about what they were doing or just go into boxed text to start the mod?
Simpi 02-22-06, 11:29 AM	Did you give the players an opportunity to say anything about what they were doing or just go into boxed text to start the mod? Indeed I had. The game had been going on for half an hour at this stage and over several days in game time (without Heroe's Feast I might add...) S.H, the guyfrom Naerie
Iswald 02-22-06, 12:22 PM	Indeed I had. The game had been going on for half an hour at this stage and over several days in game time (without Heroe's Feast I might add...) In that case, it's their problem for not setting up their routine. Still, the DM, judge, GM, or what have you, is responsible for setting the pace and mood of the adventure. Sometimes, they should be asking questions to provoke the players into taking the appropriate measures, even if they never come into play during the adventure.
Samwise 02-22-06, 05:16 PM	In that case, it's their problem for not setting up their routine. Still, the DM, judge, GM, or what have you, is responsible for setting the pace and mood of the adventure. Sometimes, they should be asking questions to provoke the players into taking the appropriate measures, even if they never come into play during the adventure. It is most certainly not the responsibility of the DM to provoke the players into any such activities. The DM is not there to play their characters. I do ask that everyone detail for me anything they are casting, particularly enhanced senses, but I don't suggest anything unless specifically required to by the adventure. That is the responsibility of the players.
Iswald 02-22-06, 10:40 PM	It is most certainly not the responsibility of the DM to provoke the players into any such activities. The DM is not there to play their characters. I do ask that everyone detail for me anything they are casting, particularly enhanced senses, but I don't suggest anything unless specifically required to by the adventure. That is the responsibility of the players. Heh. I take it you've never asked players if they are setting up watches at night as a DM or had a DM ask you and your group member the same? I'm not saying that you should ask if they are casting particular spells. But, you should present the situation so that they should think of it themselves.
Samwise 02-22-06, 11:22 PM	Heh. I take it you've never asked players if they are setting up watches at night as a DM or had a DM ask you and your group member the same? I'm not saying that you should ask if they are casting particular spells. But, you should present the situation so that they should think of it themselves. You mean like telling them they have to stop and rest for the night? I don't get silly and expect players to have to tell me they put on their vacc suits before leaving the ship (to gratuitously mix genres), but I do expect them to be able to remember they need watches on their own. Just suddenly saying "And you get ambushed because you don't have watches!" would be wrong if you haven't mentioned the situation has changed. Once you do the players should react to it on their own.
Madfox11 03-06-06, 05:39 AM	When I start a game as a DM, I tend to either ask the players about any daily routines (including spells cast and watch patrols) either before or more often shortly after the introduction. I tend to wait until after the introduction because else we have to wait 2 times while the players are preparing spells instead of 1 time. What I do NOT do, is give them advice on what to cast and not to cast. So if the players forget the heroes feast that is their problem. Shamefully enough my players never forget heroes feast ;) As for adding more campaign documentation to this campaign, you do realize people are already complaining about the amount of documentation in it? Favors, curses and item access are on the ARs. If you have difficulties remembering these things it is really not that difficult to make an Excell sheet of your own - I have seen more then enough players do this. It is not as if such summaries require a DM's signature. There is no difference between spell storing items, and long duration spells. Ease of use and to prevent abuse keeps the rules as they are. Besides, very few adventures I have seen start immediately with the action, and even those that do, I see many DMs allowing PC friends of precasting certain spells. Pieter Sleijpen Circle Member representative of the Splintered Suns Metaregion
gomeztoo 03-06-06, 08:59 AM	Or log in to nyrond.org. You can craete a list oif favors, access, and stuff for your PCs and print it out. Really useful. Though even then I tend to forget stuff. Some of it important too - i.e. yesterday I forgot a disfavor that make you run the chance of starting a scenario at 50% hp. On hindsight that wouldn't have mattered, inm that scenario. But it could have. Just saying that loads of documentation still doesn't mean much.
King Kashue 03-06-06, 10:07 PM	Personally, I have a list of stuff I tell the DM at the Beginning...Everything from "I'm the True Disciple of Zagyg, here's the sheet that says what that means" to "Unless otherwise stated, I have mage armor cast continually" and "I carry a guisarme openly, so it's clear I have a reach weapon"...
solbergb 03-08-06, 10:33 PM	Yeah, I have a few things. Some chars need the DM to know more than others. Monk...not much, he's weird but not in ways a DM needs to know about Sorceress...the 24x7 spells achieved by multiple castings are explained "tell me time of day and I mark off charges". Also brief the DM on sensory stuff I'm likely to have (bat, echolocation 20' blindsense, I cast arcane sight a lot too, so don't let that surprise you). Most other things she does are "show not tell" and obvious, if bizzare. Soon as I get the ring of counterspells, that'll go on the list of things to tell a DM too. Archer...DM needs to know he has sky-high spot+listen and a bat with sky high spot+listen and echolocation. Plus I pass out benign transposition scrolls to other arcanists. I also describe the vast numbers of splash weapons, throwing weapons, bows and ammo he carries visible and ready to quickdraw, so the DM can have folks respond badly to it, or think about shattering the splash weapon containers,etc. Dwarf Bard/Barian/Tank - mostly just let the judge know he speaks a LOT of languages and to not assume automatically that he doesn't know that one, plus he has decipher script for anything he can't read. And a masterwork drum with the heraldry of the Ogberg Bardic College (including a pholtan symbol, sadly) emblazoned on it. My baby characters don't yet have anything weird, aside from who they are (Asherati has a few things a DM needs to be aware of regarding water and the ability to be a giant lightbulb)
kjenks 10-17-06, 11:27 AM	LGCS 596 already lists several effects which carry over between adventures. Diseases, temporary ability damage and permanent ability drain are mentioned on pages 13-14. This paragraph is on page 51: LGSC 596, page 51 === Spell Storing Items Several magic items allow you to store a spell for later use. Some examples are ring of counterspells, ring of spell storing, and the spell storing weapons special ability. In the LIVING GREYHAWK campaign, these items always start empty at the start of a new adventure. A charged spell storing device may carry over to the next round in a multi-round event. === I propose a change like this: Current text: "In the LIVING GREYHAWK campaign, these items always start empty at the start of a new adventure." Change to: "In the LIVING GREYHAWK campaign, these items always start empty at the start of a new adventure unless a note appears in the notes section of the previous AR, initialed by the DM." As an alternative, and to be more comprehensive, we could make a new form similar to a MIL that lists specific effects which carry over between adventures. These effects are currently scattered all over the LGCS; it would be helpful to put them all in one place in a standardized manner so that each DM confronted by these things could deal with them more easily. - Curses (LGCS 596, page 59) - Unhealed damage (LGCS 596, page 59) - Diseases (LGCS 596, page 13) - Temporary ability damage (LGCS 596, page 13) - Permanent ability drain (LGCS 596, page 14) - Cursed items (LGCS 596, page 18) - Spell storing items (LGSC 596, page 51) - List of destroyed magic items (LGSC 596, page 45) - Permanent spells like Clone and Drawmij's Instant Summons (LGSC 596, page 46) - Items left at home (LGSC 596, page 68)
kjenks 10-18-06, 08:05 AM	- Feeblemind