Cast Greater Invisibility on the Knight... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cast Greater Invisibility on the Knight... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jay_Ibero_911
03-26-07, 08:08 PM Lets say their is a Knight in the party. A bad guy, deciding to be silly, casts greater invisibility on him, and he fails the will save, becoming invisible. The Knight's Code forbids him from attacking flat footed opponents, but they will be flat footed for the duration of the spell. I suppose in the end this is a theoretical roleplay question, but what do you think the knight should do in this situation? What if the situation is reversed and the party encounters an evil knight and successfully casts greater invisiblity on him. I know the knight CAN attack, but he would burn through uses of his knight's challenge, and potentially suffer penalties if he runs out of them. Also, can you really tell if someone is flat footed or not? Does someone with uncanny dodge or blind-fight look any different that someone without them until the invisible person is already making the attack?
cycloptic_squirrel
03-26-07, 09:20 PM If the knight realized it was his opponent who made him invisable, I'd suggest that he wouldn't lose any Challanges. If it was a friendly wizard who made him invisable, there's no question, but when your opponent does it, that suggests pretty heavily that he's ready for your attack. Or can my bad guy's screw your knight by closing thier eyes?
TheBlackFlail
03-26-07, 09:38 PM Invisibility (or blindness) does not make your opponents flat footed, enemies which cannot see you merely lose their dexterity bonus to AC (and you have a +2 attack bonus vs. them).
Jay_Ibero_911
03-26-07, 09:51 PM Invisibility (or blindness) does not make your opponents flat footed, enemies which cannot see you merely lose their dexterity bonus to AC (and you have a +2 attack bonus vs. them).

Good point. Being flat-footed and being denied your dex bonus are not the same thing (despite how often we seem to forget). Though that brings up the matter of whether it is against the spirit of the rules for a knight to not be penalized for attacking foes who are denied their dex for other reasons.
Lightblade
03-26-07, 10:30 PM I don't think it is. I see it more as the "prepare yourself for combat", but once in combat anything goes (except for flanking).

That said, the other common way to be flat footed is to be in the area of a Grease spell w/o 5 ranks in balance or Uncanny Dodge.
Hand_OF_Mystra
03-27-07, 11:09 AM The knight could still help by using the aid action or by soaking up AoOs.
GreatSiron
03-27-07, 11:48 AM The knight could still help by using the aid action or by soaking up AoOs.

I don't think you can take AOO's vs. an invisble creature, I think you have to be able to see him.
LachlarlanIII
03-27-07, 12:58 PM What if the Knight doesn't realize he's invisible? When you turn invisible, can you see yourself?
Morgen
03-28-07, 12:13 AM How would the bad guy know that the character was a Knight of the Knight class. That's my question.

I'm always a little annoyed that the bad guys seem to know exactly what we've written on a character sheet and don't care at all about what your character actually looks like. Obviously I'm not speaking about watching someone cast a fireball, but just because someone isn't in full plate with a tower shield any random idiot NPC can just pick out spellcasters in a party without any sort of divinations? That's a load. A complete one at that.
ShinAkuma2
03-28-07, 12:37 AM How would the bad guy know that the character was a Knight of the Knight class. That's my question.

When he starts spouting about Lieges and Honor and Challenges and all that nonsense, it might strike him as rather Knightly.
clannagh
03-28-07, 01:06 AM What if the Knight doesn't realize he's invisible? When you turn invisible, can you see yourself?

hehe

Player: I retrieve the cure light potion from my pack

GM: sorry you and it are invisible .. DC 45 spot check to find it while invisible
TheBlackFlail
03-28-07, 01:36 AM My opinion is that if striking a foe who is denied his dex bonus were against the "spirit" of the knight's code, then it would have been put in the letter of the Knight's code. If the meant "an opponent who is denied his dex bonus" than they would have put it that way, not "flat-footed opponent."
RLWilde
03-28-07, 06:28 PM When he starts spouting about Lieges and Honor and Challenges and all that nonsense, it might strike him as rather Knightly.
Hey, if the bad guy wants to cast Greater Invisibility on my Cleric of Heironeous, he's welcome to do so.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jay_Ibero_911 03-26-07, 08:08 PM	Lets say their is a Knight in the party. A bad guy, deciding to be silly, casts greater invisibility on him, and he fails the will save, becoming invisible. The Knight's Code forbids him from attacking flat footed opponents, but they will be flat footed for the duration of the spell. I suppose in the end this is a theoretical roleplay question, but what do you think the knight should do in this situation? What if the situation is reversed and the party encounters an evil knight and successfully casts greater invisiblity on him. I know the knight CAN attack, but he would burn through uses of his knight's challenge, and potentially suffer penalties if he runs out of them. Also, can you really tell if someone is flat footed or not? Does someone with uncanny dodge or blind-fight look any different that someone without them until the invisible person is already making the attack?
cycloptic_squirrel 03-26-07, 09:20 PM	If the knight realized it was his opponent who made him invisable, I'd suggest that he wouldn't lose any Challanges. If it was a friendly wizard who made him invisable, there's no question, but when your opponent does it, that suggests pretty heavily that he's ready for your attack. Or can my bad guy's screw your knight by closing thier eyes?
TheBlackFlail 03-26-07, 09:38 PM	Invisibility (or blindness) does not make your opponents flat footed, enemies which cannot see you merely lose their dexterity bonus to AC (and you have a +2 attack bonus vs. them).
Jay_Ibero_911 03-26-07, 09:51 PM	Invisibility (or blindness) does not make your opponents flat footed, enemies which cannot see you merely lose their dexterity bonus to AC (and you have a +2 attack bonus vs. them). Good point. Being flat-footed and being denied your dex bonus are not the same thing (despite how often we seem to forget). Though that brings up the matter of whether it is against the spirit of the rules for a knight to not be penalized for attacking foes who are denied their dex for other reasons.
Lightblade 03-26-07, 10:30 PM	I don't think it is. I see it more as the "prepare yourself for combat", but once in combat anything goes (except for flanking). That said, the other common way to be flat footed is to be in the area of a Grease spell w/o 5 ranks in balance or Uncanny Dodge.
Hand_OF_Mystra 03-27-07, 11:09 AM	The knight could still help by using the aid action or by soaking up AoOs.
GreatSiron 03-27-07, 11:48 AM	The knight could still help by using the aid action or by soaking up AoOs. I don't think you can take AOO's vs. an invisble creature, I think you have to be able to see him.
LachlarlanIII 03-27-07, 12:58 PM	What if the Knight doesn't realize he's invisible? When you turn invisible, can you see yourself?
Morgen 03-28-07, 12:13 AM	How would the bad guy know that the character was a Knight of the Knight class. That's my question. I'm always a little annoyed that the bad guys seem to know exactly what we've written on a character sheet and don't care at all about what your character actually looks like. Obviously I'm not speaking about watching someone cast a fireball, but just because someone isn't in full plate with a tower shield any random idiot NPC can just pick out spellcasters in a party without any sort of divinations? That's a load. A complete one at that.
ShinAkuma2 03-28-07, 12:37 AM	How would the bad guy know that the character was a Knight of the Knight class. That's my question. When he starts spouting about Lieges and Honor and Challenges and all that nonsense, it might strike him as rather Knightly.
clannagh 03-28-07, 01:06 AM	What if the Knight doesn't realize he's invisible? When you turn invisible, can you see yourself? hehe Player: I retrieve the cure light potion from my pack GM: sorry you and it are invisible .. DC 45 spot check to find it while invisible
TheBlackFlail 03-28-07, 01:36 AM	My opinion is that if striking a foe who is denied his dex bonus were against the "spirit" of the knight's code, then it would have been put in the letter of the Knight's code. If the meant "an opponent who is denied his dex bonus" than they would have put it that way, not "flat-footed opponent."
RLWilde 03-28-07, 06:28 PM	When he starts spouting about Lieges and Honor and Challenges and all that nonsense, it might strike him as rather Knightly. Hey, if the bad guy wants to cast Greater Invisibility on my Cleric of Heironeous, he's welcome to do so.