Centaur Questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Centaur Questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
eloiwyn
04-10-06, 01:43 PM Can a centaur character take the multiattack feat, and if so under what circumstances? It seems like a great feat for them, but it's not in the Player's Handbook or listed in the Bright Sands Sourcebook, so I have assumed it's not available at least at 1st level....

If a centaur takes two-weapon fighting, would the -2 penalty on attack rolls (assuming off-hand wields light weapon) also apply to the hoof attacks?

Is a centaur considered "mounted" for purposes of wielding weapons? Specifically, do they have to use a composite longbow rather than a regular longbow, and can they use spears/lances like a mounted rider?

If a centaur wants to haul around extra stuff, can they buy and wear a regular pack saddle and/or saddle bags? If a centaur has reached large size and wants a parasol for heat protection, do they have to buy a larger size item (yes, I know, centaur galloping across the sands holding a giant parasol is a ludicrous image, but it could happen....)?
redgamer
04-10-06, 03:19 PM You have to get explicit access to take multi-attack feat.
rook1138
04-10-06, 07:31 PM Can a centaur character take the multiattack feat, and if so under what circumstances? It seems like a great feat for them, but it's not in the Player's Handbook or listed in the Bright Sands Sourcebook, so I have assumed it's not available at least at 1st level....

doesn't the multiattack feat require 3 or more natural attacks, and centaurs only have the two hooves as "natural attacks" don't they? Or do they get a slam and/or bite?
Gelth
09-14-06, 11:22 AM Centaurs don't normally qualify for Multiattack, nor does a PC centaur have access.
Regarding lances, they aren't mounted so it's a two-handed weapon. The Monster Manual states that they do get doubled damage on the charge with a lance, and nothing anywhere that I've found negates that, so although they can't take any of the mounted feats (unless they can find something they can ride) the lance is still a pretty good weapon.
I'd have no problem with a centaur buying saddlebags.
Parasols don't specify what size they work for, as far as I know, it's just an item, unsized, like a coil of rope.
Howie23
09-14-06, 05:31 PM Centaurs .. Regarding lances, they aren't mounted so it's a two-handed weapon. The Monster Manual states that they do get doubled damage on the charge with a lance, and nothing anywhere that I've found negates that..

You will find table variance on centaurs getting double damage with lances. While the MM states centaurs get x2 damage when charging w/a lance, PC centaurs do not use the MM description. Instead, PC centaurs use the RoW description, which does not provide x2 damage.

David
Gelth
09-15-06, 12:06 PM You will indeed get table variation, and this is valid, because the rules are ambiguous. I lean towards allowing it, because the primary source for centaurs (in my opinion) is the Monster Manual, and in any case, you only need worry about primary sources if the rules contradict. Nothing here even tries to contradict the primary source, so it stands.
I wouldn't be surprised to be overruled though, it's ambiguous as has been stated.

--Penn, Ket Triad
Greyson
09-16-06, 05:25 PM You will indeed get table variation, and this is valid, because the rules are ambiguous. I lean towards allowing it, because the primary source for centaurs (in my opinion) is the Monster Manual, and in any case, you only need worry about primary sources if the rules contradict. I had this exact issue come up last night as I judged Blood on Bright Sands with two centaur characters (why else play this adventure, right?). I agree with Penn. It seems to be in the spirit of the rules that centaur characters retain the double damage while charging with a lance. I shall allow it till we know otherwise.

I don't expect any clarification for Living Greyhawk. So table variance may always be an issue. There are too few of these characters without any known chance to create any more after December 31st 2006.

Don Kenneth Brown
Nyrond Triad - PoC
Mithreinmaethor
09-17-06, 11:30 PM Maybe this Q&A from the CY596 LGCS will help with this little discussion.

Q: I have many questions on game mechanics issues involving Hueleneaer centaur characters (a special racial option available to Player Rewards members for the “Blight on Bright Sands” story arc). How do I resolve rules questions on this race not specific to the Living Greyhawk campaign?

A: In all cases except those mentioned here and in the Blight on Bright Sands Sourcebook, Hueleneaer centaurs conform to the rules given in Races of the Wild. Also, referencing Chapters 4-7 of the Monster Manual may give you additional clarifications to your questions. If you have further questions, you can submit them through Knowledge Base to receive answers.
ShinAkuma2
09-18-06, 04:00 PM I lean towards allowing it, because the primary source for centaurs (in my opinion) is the Monster Manual, and in any case, you only need worry about primary sources if the rules contradict. Nothing here even tries to contradict the primary source, so it stands.

The MM is the primary source for MM Centaurs, which PCs are not. Hueleneaer centaurs from Races of the Wild are not the same monster as the MM centaur, and do not get all the same bonuses.
Thelir
09-19-06, 10:53 AM The MM is the primary source for MM Centaurs, which PCs are not. Hueleneaer centaurs from Races of the Wild are not the same monster as the MM centaur, and do not get all the same bonuses.
According to your opinion. Imho they are the same creature and use the same rules except where differences are mentioned. YMMV, and I do fully expect table variation. :D

/Erik
Arvagor
09-19-06, 03:17 PM Dispel Confusion Vol. 1, No. 2 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgif/20050726a): Q: I have many questions on game mechanics issues involving Hueleneaer centaur characters (a special racial option available to D&D Rewards members for the Blight on Bright Sands story arc). How do I resolve rules questions on this race not specific to the Living Greyhawk campaign?

A: In all cases except those mentioned here and in the Blight on Bright Sands Sourcebook, Hueleneaer centaurs conform to the rules given in Races of the Wild. Also, referencing Chapters 4-7 of the Monster Manual may give you additional clarifications to your questions. If you have further questions, you can submit them through Knowledge Base to receive answers.Neither the above nor the Blight on Bright Sands Sourcebook make any mention of using the MM rules for centaurs.

Other points that illustrate they are not the same: Bonus languages are different
Weapon proficiencies are different
Armor proficiency is different
Per the aforementioned Dispel Confusion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgif/20050726a), their size is even different (still Large, but smaller than a "sylvan" centaur)
TWG_Prometheus
09-20-06, 03:18 PM I had this exact issue come up last night as I judged Blood on Bright Sands with two centaur characters (why else play this adventure, right?). I agree with Penn. It seems to be in the spirit of the rules that centaur characters retain the double damage while charging with a lance. I shall allow it till we know otherwise.

I don't expect any clarification for Living Greyhawk. So table variance may always be an issue. There are too few of these characters without any known chance to create any more after December 31st 2006.

Don Kenneth Brown
Nyrond Triad - PoC

Except for the fact that we weren't using lances. Fortunately, this problem is kept under wraps a bit by the fact that through the first 6 levels of their play experience, Centaurs can't get Martial Weapon Proficiency for lances without taking a feat.

I got the double damage finishing blow with my longspear set against a charge.

The thing I can't figure out is whether my centaur would line up with the cavalry or the infantry in an army... *Boggle*

Hi Don!
Lightblade
10-16-06, 04:56 PM New question, so i'll rez the thread:

Centars have hit dice different from their level. This brings up a few interesting questions. When do you use Hit Dice, and when do you use level (I use level to include all six levels of the Centaur Monster Class)? Note: I don't have savage species on me.

I'm positive I use level for calculating the APL, and how close I am to it. I also believe i use level for how many Campaign Cards i can bring to the game. As for hit dice, i use them for skills and feats. To figure out ability score bumps, I look only at non-centaur class levels.

My question: What if I have something that factors off my character level? Let's say, for example, i have the ability to smite as a Destruction-Domain cleric of my (character) level - 3. Can I count all 6 levels of the centaur monster class, or do I just get the 4 hit dice?
jstorrie
10-16-06, 11:44 PM You do use level for calculating APL. You do use level for figuring out campaign cards. You do use HD+class levels for skills and feats. You also use HD+class levels for ability score bumps.

If you have an ability, feat, class feature, etc., that runs off of class levels, it's based on the levels you have in the class that grants it. If it runs off of character level, it's based on your class levels plus your centaur hit dice.

If you are targetted by a spell like sleep or cloudkill that has varying effects based on hit dice, you refer to your class levels plus hit dice.

So the only thing you use your effective character level for, really, is the metagame stuff. Everything else is generally based on your total (racial plus class levels) hit dice or just on levels in a specific class.
Lightblade
10-17-06, 12:22 AM You also use HD+class levels for ability score bumps.
Actually, I've heard that i don't get the HD for that,since ability score bumps are built into the monster class levels. Can someone comment on that?

If it runs off of character level, it's based on your class levels plus your centaur hit dice. Here is the only point where by my interpretation disagrees, and I hope there's some discussion on the matter. By using a monster class, I don't have a level adjustment. Instead, i take six levels of a monster class, but only get four hit dice. Still, i've got six levels of centaur, and I think all those six levels contribute to my "character level".

Now, this makes a centaur that has advanced in a monster class mechanically different from a centaur that just took his +2 level adjustment and 4 hit dice. I don't know how I feel about that.
Arvagor
10-17-06, 01:00 AM In terms of calculating your "level" -- at least for the purpose of things like APL determination, etc., you need to use your ECL, your Effective Character Level, defined as:This number represents a creature's overall power relative to that of a character from the Player's Handbook. A creature with an effective character level (ECL) of 10 is roughly equivalent to a 10th-level character. A creature's ECL is the sum of its Hit Dice (including class levels) and level adjustment. For instance, a splinterwaif has 2 HD and a +4 level adjustment. It is the equivalent of a 6th-level character.So a Centaur Fighter 4 is a 10th level character: 4 racial hit dice +2 level adjustment 4 fighter levels
My question: What if I have something that factors off my character level? Let's say, for example, i have the ability to smite as a Destruction-Domain cleric of my (character) level - 3. Can I count all 6 levels of the centaur monster class, or do I just get the 4 hit dice?I think that's going to depend very much on how the ability is worded. IIRC, the Destruction domain's smite is tied directly to the PC's cleric level. Other abilities, such as the asherati's 'Body Lamp (Su)' ability (the "dazzle" ability), state they are tied to "the asherati's character level" -- I know, that doesn't help since the asherati doesn't have a LA... :blush:

A tiefling's 'Darkness (Sp)' ability states, "A tiefling can use darkness once per day (caster level equal to class levels)" [emphasis mine].

Maybe it would help if you could state/post what the actually ability in question says? If it's from a mod, then just don't tell us from where... ;)
jstorrie
10-17-06, 02:03 AM Your stat bumps are based on hit dice and not subsumed into the racial class levels. The racial class levels only exist to allow you to take the centaur level adjustment 'a little at a time,' and as you take on more LA (in the form of experience levels that do not grand HD) you gain additional racial bonuses to balance them out.
Gelth
10-17-06, 09:19 AM Basically, you use level for things that are not in the game, like figuring out how powerful your character is for purposes of APL and such. For mechanical purposes in the game, you use hitdice (racial plus class level).
For the purposes of stat bumps, you do indeed use your hitdice not your level, but you don't get stat bumps at any hitdie level that is racial. That means, that as your 4th hitdie is racial, you don't get a +1 to a stat, but for your 8th hitdie (at 10th overall), you do. In this case, because Centaurs have 4 racial hitdice it works out that you just start counting every four class levels, but a critter with racial hitdice not divisible by 4 wouldn't be able to do that.

--Penn, Ket Triad
Lightblade
10-17-06, 01:48 PM Maybe it would help if you could state/post what the actually ability in question says? If it's from a mod, then just don't tell us from where... ;)

Yes, it is something i got from an AR. It says once per adventure I can smite, as per the Destruction domain, as a cleric of my character level - 3.

Now i'm wondering if/how that would combine with becoming a Pious Templar and gaining smite from that....
KShaver
10-20-06, 10:39 AM In terms of calculating your "level" -- at least for the purpose of things like APL determination, etc., you need to use your ECL, your Effective Character Level, defined as:So a Centaur Fighter 4 is a 10th level character: 4 racial hit dice +2 level adjustment 4 fighter levels

This is only an 8th level character, but is ECL 10. The ECL modifier is specifically meant to cover the gap between actual character level, and equivalent character level. ECL is primarily only used to determine proper challenges (CRs/ELs) and experience/leveling (xp gain and when they level).

Actually, I've heard that i don't get the HD for that,since ability score bumps are built into the monster class levels. Can someone comment on that?

It is to some degree, you don't get ability score bumps for monster hit dice...but as you add class levels you calculate when you get the ability raise off of total HD. So at 4HD you don't get the normal ability raise, but once you are done with the centaur levels and hit the next x4 marker you do get the bump (at 8HD, ECL10).
Arvagor
10-20-06, 11:40 AM This is only an 8th level character, but is ECL 10. The ECL modifier is specifically meant to cover the gap between actual character level, and equivalent character level. ECL is primarily only used to determine proper challenges (CRs/ELs) and experience/leveling (xp gain and when they level).If we're arguing semantics, ECL = effective character level (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_effectivecharacterleve l&alpha=E). And wasn't I saying the ECL determines APL, etc.?:confused:

I have a PC (non-centaur) with a +1 level adjustment. He has 9 class levels. I was told by a Circle member that for all intents and purposes (determining APL, awarding XP, etc.) that he is to be treated as a 10th level character, just like a centaur with 4 class levels would be.
clannagh
10-21-06, 10:42 PM According to your opinion. Imho they are the same creature and use the same rules except where differences are mentioned. YMMV, and I do fully expect table variation. :D

/Erik

In which case the Races of Faerun centuars, which are even more powerful again and do count as mounted, should also be the same creature ?

Its pretty clearly set out in LGCS that you must use the specified source for any rules and cannot refer back to older sources.
KShaver
10-23-06, 11:50 AM If we're arguing semantics, ECL = effective character level (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_effectivecharacterleve l&alpha=E). And wasn't I saying the ECL determines APL, etc.?:confused:

I have a PC (non-centaur) with a +1 level adjustment. He has 9 class levels. I was told by a Circle member that for all intents and purposes (determining APL, awarding XP, etc.) that he is to be treated as a 10th level character, just like a centaur with 4 class levels would be.

Was just trying to point out you have to be carefull what you use for different situations. ECL is used for APL, experience, advancement, and related items, while CL is used to determine the characters abilities. Specifically in this case his smite is at CL -3 not ECL -3.
Arvagor
10-23-06, 12:59 PM OK, I think we're on the same page now...

Although I'm not sure what CL has to do with it; a centaur fighter 4 wouldn't have a Caster Level ... ;)
KShaver
10-23-06, 01:37 PM OK, I think we're on the same page now...

Although I'm not sure what CL has to do with it; a centaur fighter 4 wouldn't have a Caster Level ... ;)

An unfortunate consequence of identical acronyms, however, I believe the usage in this instance should make a more appropriate deciphering fairly obvious.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
eloiwyn 04-10-06, 01:43 PM	Can a centaur character take the multiattack feat, and if so under what circumstances? It seems like a great feat for them, but it's not in the Player's Handbook or listed in the Bright Sands Sourcebook, so I have assumed it's not available at least at 1st level.... If a centaur takes two-weapon fighting, would the -2 penalty on attack rolls (assuming off-hand wields light weapon) also apply to the hoof attacks? Is a centaur considered "mounted" for purposes of wielding weapons? Specifically, do they have to use a composite longbow rather than a regular longbow, and can they use spears/lances like a mounted rider? If a centaur wants to haul around extra stuff, can they buy and wear a regular pack saddle and/or saddle bags? If a centaur has reached large size and wants a parasol for heat protection, do they have to buy a larger size item (yes, I know, centaur galloping across the sands holding a giant parasol is a ludicrous image, but it could happen....)?
redgamer 04-10-06, 03:19 PM	You have to get explicit access to take multi-attack feat.
rook1138 04-10-06, 07:31 PM	Can a centaur character take the multiattack feat, and if so under what circumstances? It seems like a great feat for them, but it's not in the Player's Handbook or listed in the Bright Sands Sourcebook, so I have assumed it's not available at least at 1st level.... doesn't the multiattack feat require 3 or more natural attacks, and centaurs only have the two hooves as "natural attacks" don't they? Or do they get a slam and/or bite?
Gelth 09-14-06, 11:22 AM	Centaurs don't normally qualify for Multiattack, nor does a PC centaur have access. Regarding lances, they aren't mounted so it's a two-handed weapon. The Monster Manual states that they do get doubled damage on the charge with a lance, and nothing anywhere that I've found negates that, so although they can't take any of the mounted feats (unless they can find something they can ride) the lance is still a pretty good weapon. I'd have no problem with a centaur buying saddlebags. Parasols don't specify what size they work for, as far as I know, it's just an item, unsized, like a coil of rope.
Howie23 09-14-06, 05:31 PM	Centaurs .. Regarding lances, they aren't mounted so it's a two-handed weapon. The Monster Manual states that they do get doubled damage on the charge with a lance, and nothing anywhere that I've found negates that.. You will find table variance on centaurs getting double damage with lances. While the MM states centaurs get x2 damage when charging w/a lance, PC centaurs do not use the MM description. Instead, PC centaurs use the RoW description, which does not provide x2 damage. David
Gelth 09-15-06, 12:06 PM	You will indeed get table variation, and this is valid, because the rules are ambiguous. I lean towards allowing it, because the primary source for centaurs (in my opinion) is the Monster Manual, and in any case, you only need worry about primary sources if the rules contradict. Nothing here even tries to contradict the primary source, so it stands. I wouldn't be surprised to be overruled though, it's ambiguous as has been stated. --Penn, Ket Triad
Greyson 09-16-06, 05:25 PM	You will indeed get table variation, and this is valid, because the rules are ambiguous. I lean towards allowing it, because the primary source for centaurs (in my opinion) is the Monster Manual, and in any case, you only need worry about primary sources if the rules contradict. I had this exact issue come up last night as I judged Blood on Bright Sands with two centaur characters (why else play this adventure, right?). I agree with Penn. It seems to be in the spirit of the rules that centaur characters retain the double damage while charging with a lance. I shall allow it till we know otherwise. I don't expect any clarification for Living Greyhawk. So table variance may always be an issue. There are too few of these characters without any known chance to create any more after December 31st 2006. Don Kenneth Brown Nyrond Triad - PoC
Mithreinmaethor 09-17-06, 11:30 PM	Maybe this Q&A from the CY596 LGCS will help with this little discussion. Q: I have many questions on game mechanics issues involving Hueleneaer centaur characters (a special racial option available to Player Rewards members for the “Blight on Bright Sands” story arc). How do I resolve rules questions on this race not specific to the Living Greyhawk campaign? A: In all cases except those mentioned here and in the Blight on Bright Sands Sourcebook, Hueleneaer centaurs conform to the rules given in Races of the Wild. Also, referencing Chapters 4-7 of the Monster Manual may give you additional clarifications to your questions. If you have further questions, you can submit them through Knowledge Base to receive answers.
ShinAkuma2 09-18-06, 04:00 PM	I lean towards allowing it, because the primary source for centaurs (in my opinion) is the Monster Manual, and in any case, you only need worry about primary sources if the rules contradict. Nothing here even tries to contradict the primary source, so it stands. The MM is the primary source for MM Centaurs, which PCs are not. Hueleneaer centaurs from Races of the Wild are not the same monster as the MM centaur, and do not get all the same bonuses.
Thelir 09-19-06, 10:53 AM	The MM is the primary source for MM Centaurs, which PCs are not. Hueleneaer centaurs from Races of the Wild are not the same monster as the MM centaur, and do not get all the same bonuses. According to your opinion. Imho they are the same creature and use the same rules except where differences are mentioned. YMMV, and I do fully expect table variation. :D /Erik
Arvagor 09-19-06, 03:17 PM	Dispel Confusion Vol. 1, No. 2 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgif/20050726a): Q: I have many questions on game mechanics issues involving Hueleneaer centaur characters (a special racial option available to D&D Rewards members for the Blight on Bright Sands story arc). How do I resolve rules questions on this race not specific to the Living Greyhawk campaign? A: In all cases except those mentioned here and in the Blight on Bright Sands Sourcebook, Hueleneaer centaurs conform to the rules given in Races of the Wild. Also, referencing Chapters 4-7 of the Monster Manual may give you additional clarifications to your questions. If you have further questions, you can submit them through Knowledge Base to receive answers.Neither the above nor the Blight on Bright Sands Sourcebook make any mention of using the MM rules for centaurs. Other points that illustrate they are not the same: Bonus languages are different Weapon proficiencies are different Armor proficiency is different Per the aforementioned Dispel Confusion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgif/20050726a), their size is even different (still Large, but smaller than a "sylvan" centaur)
TWG_Prometheus 09-20-06, 03:18 PM	I had this exact issue come up last night as I judged Blood on Bright Sands with two centaur characters (why else play this adventure, right?). I agree with Penn. It seems to be in the spirit of the rules that centaur characters retain the double damage while charging with a lance. I shall allow it till we know otherwise. I don't expect any clarification for Living Greyhawk. So table variance may always be an issue. There are too few of these characters without any known chance to create any more after December 31st 2006. Don Kenneth Brown Nyrond Triad - PoC Except for the fact that we weren't using lances. Fortunately, this problem is kept under wraps a bit by the fact that through the first 6 levels of their play experience, Centaurs can't get Martial Weapon Proficiency for lances without taking a feat. I got the double damage finishing blow with my longspear set against a charge. The thing I can't figure out is whether my centaur would line up with the cavalry or the infantry in an army... Boggle Hi Don!
Lightblade 10-16-06, 04:56 PM	New question, so i'll rez the thread: Centars have hit dice different from their level. This brings up a few interesting questions. When do you use Hit Dice, and when do you use level (I use level to include all six levels of the Centaur Monster Class)? Note: I don't have savage species on me. I'm positive I use level for calculating the APL, and how close I am to it. I also believe i use level for how many Campaign Cards i can bring to the game. As for hit dice, i use them for skills and feats. To figure out ability score bumps, I look only at non-centaur class levels. My question: What if I have something that factors off my character level? Let's say, for example, i have the ability to smite as a Destruction-Domain cleric of my (character) level - 3. Can I count all 6 levels of the centaur monster class, or do I just get the 4 hit dice?
jstorrie 10-16-06, 11:44 PM	You do use level for calculating APL. You do use level for figuring out campaign cards. You do use HD+class levels for skills and feats. You also use HD+class levels for ability score bumps. If you have an ability, feat, class feature, etc., that runs off of class levels, it's based on the levels you have in the class that grants it. If it runs off of character level, it's based on your class levels plus your centaur hit dice. If you are targetted by a spell like sleep or cloudkill that has varying effects based on hit dice, you refer to your class levels plus hit dice. So the only thing you use your effective character level for, really, is the metagame stuff. Everything else is generally based on your total (racial plus class levels) hit dice or just on levels in a specific class.
Lightblade 10-17-06, 12:22 AM	You also use HD+class levels for ability score bumps. Actually, I've heard that i don't get the HD for that,since ability score bumps are built into the monster class levels. Can someone comment on that? If it runs off of character level, it's based on your class levels plus your centaur hit dice. Here is the only point where by my interpretation disagrees, and I hope there's some discussion on the matter. By using a monster class, I don't have a level adjustment. Instead, i take six levels of a monster class, but only get four hit dice. Still, i've got six levels of centaur, and I think all those six levels contribute to my "character level". Now, this makes a centaur that has advanced in a monster class mechanically different from a centaur that just took his +2 level adjustment and 4 hit dice. I don't know how I feel about that.
Arvagor 10-17-06, 01:00 AM	In terms of calculating your "level" -- at least for the purpose of things like APL determination, etc., you need to use your ECL, your Effective Character Level, defined as:This number represents a creature's overall power relative to that of a character from the Player's Handbook. A creature with an effective character level (ECL) of 10 is roughly equivalent to a 10th-level character. A creature's ECL is the sum of its Hit Dice (including class levels) and level adjustment. For instance, a splinterwaif has 2 HD and a +4 level adjustment. It is the equivalent of a 6th-level character.So a Centaur Fighter 4 is a 10th level character: 4 racial hit dice +2 level adjustment 4 fighter levels My question: What if I have something that factors off my character level? Let's say, for example, i have the ability to smite as a Destruction-Domain cleric of my (character) level - 3. Can I count all 6 levels of the centaur monster class, or do I just get the 4 hit dice?I think that's going to depend very much on how the ability is worded. IIRC, the Destruction domain's smite is tied directly to the PC's cleric level. Other abilities, such as the asherati's 'Body Lamp (Su)' ability (the "dazzle" ability), state they are tied to "the asherati's character level" -- I know, that doesn't help since the asherati doesn't have a LA... :blush: A tiefling's 'Darkness (Sp)' ability states, "A tiefling can use darkness once per day (caster level equal to class levels)" [emphasis mine]. Maybe it would help if you could state/post what the actually ability in question says? If it's from a mod, then just don't tell us from where... ;)
jstorrie 10-17-06, 02:03 AM	Your stat bumps are based on hit dice and not subsumed into the racial class levels. The racial class levels only exist to allow you to take the centaur level adjustment 'a little at a time,' and as you take on more LA (in the form of experience levels that do not grand HD) you gain additional racial bonuses to balance them out.
Gelth 10-17-06, 09:19 AM	Basically, you use level for things that are not in the game, like figuring out how powerful your character is for purposes of APL and such. For mechanical purposes in the game, you use hitdice (racial plus class level). For the purposes of stat bumps, you do indeed use your hitdice not your level, but you don't get stat bumps at any hitdie level that is racial. That means, that as your 4th hitdie is racial, you don't get a +1 to a stat, but for your 8th hitdie (at 10th overall), you do. In this case, because Centaurs have 4 racial hitdice it works out that you just start counting every four class levels, but a critter with racial hitdice not divisible by 4 wouldn't be able to do that. --Penn, Ket Triad
Lightblade 10-17-06, 01:48 PM	Maybe it would help if you could state/post what the actually ability in question says? If it's from a mod, then just don't tell us from where... ;) Yes, it is something i got from an AR. It says once per adventure I can smite, as per the Destruction domain, as a cleric of my character level - 3. Now i'm wondering if/how that would combine with becoming a Pious Templar and gaining smite from that....
KShaver 10-20-06, 10:39 AM	In terms of calculating your "level" -- at least for the purpose of things like APL determination, etc., you need to use your ECL, your Effective Character Level, defined as:So a Centaur Fighter 4 is a 10th level character: 4 racial hit dice +2 level adjustment 4 fighter levels This is only an 8th level character, but is ECL 10. The ECL modifier is specifically meant to cover the gap between actual character level, and equivalent character level. ECL is primarily only used to determine proper challenges (CRs/ELs) and experience/leveling (xp gain and when they level). Actually, I've heard that i don't get the HD for that,since ability score bumps are built into the monster class levels. Can someone comment on that? It is to some degree, you don't get ability score bumps for monster hit dice...but as you add class levels you calculate when you get the ability raise off of total HD. So at 4HD you don't get the normal ability raise, but once you are done with the centaur levels and hit the next x4 marker you do get the bump (at 8HD, ECL10).
Arvagor 10-20-06, 11:40 AM	This is only an 8th level character, but is ECL 10. The ECL modifier is specifically meant to cover the gap between actual character level, and equivalent character level. ECL is primarily only used to determine proper challenges (CRs/ELs) and experience/leveling (xp gain and when they level).If we're arguing semantics, ECL = effective character level (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_effectivecharacterleve l&alpha=E). And wasn't I saying the ECL determines APL, etc.?:confused: I have a PC (non-centaur) with a +1 level adjustment. He has 9 class levels. I was told by a Circle member that for all intents and purposes (determining APL, awarding XP, etc.) that he is to be treated as a 10th level character, just like a centaur with 4 class levels would be.
clannagh 10-21-06, 10:42 PM	According to your opinion. Imho they are the same creature and use the same rules except where differences are mentioned. YMMV, and I do fully expect table variation. :D /Erik In which case the Races of Faerun centuars, which are even more powerful again and do count as mounted, should also be the same creature ? Its pretty clearly set out in LGCS that you must use the specified source for any rules and cannot refer back to older sources.
KShaver 10-23-06, 11:50 AM	If we're arguing semantics, ECL = effective character level (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_effectivecharacterleve l&alpha=E). And wasn't I saying the ECL determines APL, etc.?:confused: I have a PC (non-centaur) with a +1 level adjustment. He has 9 class levels. I was told by a Circle member that for all intents and purposes (determining APL, awarding XP, etc.) that he is to be treated as a 10th level character, just like a centaur with 4 class levels would be. Was just trying to point out you have to be carefull what you use for different situations. ECL is used for APL, experience, advancement, and related items, while CL is used to determine the characters abilities. Specifically in this case his smite is at CL -3 not ECL -3.
Arvagor 10-23-06, 12:59 PM	OK, I think we're on the same page now... Although I'm not sure what CL has to do with it; a centaur fighter 4 wouldn't have a Caster Level ... ;)
KShaver 10-23-06, 01:37 PM	OK, I think we're on the same page now... Although I'm not sure what CL has to do with it; a centaur fighter 4 wouldn't have a Caster Level ... ;) An unfortunate consequence of identical acronyms, however, I believe the usage in this instance should make a more appropriate deciphering fairly obvious.