Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bhale187 01-15-07, 08:50 PM	In standard D&D an alignment change takes time, and only in very rare circumstances is there a sudden turn around from say lawful to nuetral or even chaotic. If a player makes a conscious decision to change his alignment, either for roleplay or building reasons how is this recorded. In LG how does this work, is it done on an AR or what?
clannagh 01-15-07, 09:10 PM	Its not exactly a sudden turn around. there are no degrees of alignment in LG. You cant be "mainly neutral but a little bit chaotic on Friday at the Inn and lawful at the Pelor temple every Sunday" or "neutral but gradually edging towards chaotic as you get more demented". Think of it as a character gradually changing overtime who at some critical point becomes "more lawful than nuetral" or whatever at which point a bifurcation occurs and their nominated alignment changes. An interesting philosophical side issue is, like most chaotic systems, once the bifurcation occurs the tendency in terms of game dynamics is for the PC to be under pressure to maintain the alignment from the alignment itself which combined with the original catalyst for the change makes changing back harder. As for the technical aspects .. unless you are an divine caster that needs an atonement to change alignment or a class like monk or paladin that has restrictions my impression is characters seem able to be change deity and alignment fairly willy nilly without noting it anywhere except on the characer sheet.
jstorrie 01-15-07, 10:01 PM	Living Greyhawk characters can flip around in alignment as much as they want, although you really ought to justify it in-character if you're going to do it. LG has quite a few 'monks who just couldn't hack it in the monastery anymore' running around with barbarian levels, etc., and that's not necessarily a bad thing if it adds another interest aspect to your character's identity and personality.
Simpi 01-16-07, 12:20 AM	LG has quite a few 'monks who just couldn't hack it in the monastery anymore' running around with barbarian levels, etc., and that's not necessarily a bad thing if it adds another interest aspect to your character's identity and personality. Which is stupid but imagine if authors were to do it as well. Players would scream for blood. Sampo Haarlaa Naerie Triad
Jay_Ibero_911 01-16-07, 01:35 AM	Which is stupid but imagine if authors were to do it as well. Players would scream for blood. Sampo Haarlaa Naerie Triad Are you saying that no author has ever put an NPC Ex-monk barbarian in a mod?
cycloptic_squirrel 01-16-07, 01:58 AM	I'd imagine that the percentage of occurances is much higher in PCs than NPCs. It does raise an interesting point though, that writers have a responsibility to set an example of what is and is not good roleplay form. I'd cringe if I saw an ex-monk half-orc barbarian without the plot suggesting it, more so if there were more than one. On the other hand I'd cheer I saw a halfling with a greataxe in the middle of a halfling-centric sotry.
Puggle Halfwine 01-16-07, 02:17 AM	On the other hand I'd cheer I saw a halfling with a greataxe in the middle of a halfling-centric sotry. If you're in the Ratik region, know that the Canberra folk have dark, dark, dark evil and twisted ideas for the demihumans of Ratik- specifically the halflings...
clannagh 01-16-07, 02:19 AM	If you're in the Ratik region, know that the Canberra folk have dark, dark, dark evil and twisted ideas for the demihumans of Ratik- specifically the halflings... thats ok just bring perrenders
gomeztoo 01-16-07, 04:02 AM	Which is stupid but imagine if authors were to do it as well. Players would scream for blood. Start screaming. They do.
gomeztoo 01-16-07, 04:16 AM	As to cahingin glaignmen: rthat ahppened to two ofm my PCs. Nesalia started out CN. Because she had to be CG for dragon dsicple, I slowly eeked her towards that aligment over the course of two levels. She is now CG, though with occasional dark (neutral, some might even say evil) tendencies, in line with her aggressive, bestial nature, slumbering deep inside her. While Nesalia's alignment change was subconsiously, as a result of her development and association with other (good) PCs, another PC consciously made a slightly more drastical alignment change. Greaser, my rogue, was a selfish little cretin who would steal everything bolted down, getting in and out of prison more often than Oprah looses or gains weight. He is CN. However, he desperately wanted to be a member of a secret order of Al Aqbar. He felt rather slighted that he wasn't invited... In the end, the order couldn't entirely ignore the little rogue, and, more to get him to shut up than anythign else, told him he could... if he reformed. So now Greaser tries his best to follow the teachings of Al Aqbar (with, obviosuly, his own little twist). He is technically NG, though he has yet difficulty comprehending the details of his new faith and alignment... Just two examples to show that changing alignment can be justified IC. Note that I would actually change Nesalia's alignment back to CN had I the chance (since I don't expect Shannus, her boyfriend, to turn CG), but the LGCS seems to make that impossible.
_m_ 01-17-07, 11:49 PM	As to cahingin glaignmen: rthat ahppened to two ofm my PCs. ... lol did you have your hand 1 set of keys off on your keyboard? or did someone at work use one of those little USB foam mimssile launchers to distract you by shooting you in the ear while you typed that. damn CN work colleagues.
Japangirl 01-18-07, 12:45 AM	Only one of my PCs has changed alignment, because Mindbenders can't be good (stupid CG bard!). I've roleplayed it that as she gets more and more interested in controlling people's minds, she cares less and less about what happens to them and their free will (Good stuff) and only wants to make everyone like her, whether they actually want to or not (selfish Neutrality).
clannagh 01-18-07, 12:53 AM	I have met a willowisp with an incorporeal template. if authors can do that I am sure the odd mank/barbarian isnt too bad
LGMoses 01-18-07, 01:37 AM	Only one of my PCs has changed alignment, because Mindbenders can't be good (stupid CG bard!). I've roleplayed it that as she gets more and more interested in controlling people's minds, she cares less and less about what happens to them and their free will (Good stuff) and only wants to make everyone like her, whether they actually want to or not (selfish Neutrality). lol, what are the rules on dominating PC's? U should get a buddy u always game with and make him your thrall. Do any AR's give access to thralls for high level mindbenders?
gomeztoo 01-18-07, 09:31 AM	... lol did you have your hand 1 set of keys off on your keyboard? Would it explain a lot if i say I'm a software developer?
Japangirl 01-18-07, 06:37 PM	lol, what are the rules on dominating PC's? U should get a buddy u always game with and make him your thrall. Do any AR's give access to thralls for high level mindbenders? I wish! Sadly, no, I would not be allowed to keep my dominated minotaur barbarian around past the mod I dominated him in. And thus, I am only taking one level of Mindbender, since it gives Telepathy and I don't lose a caster level doing so. If I can't keep my Charmed monsters, I don't want them at all! I'll wind up with a level of marshall as well, since motivating Charisma (yes, not Dex, I want to max my diplomacy more) in people's heads makes me giggle.
Mommy was an Orc 01-18-07, 07:00 PM	Which is stupid but imagine if authors were to do it as well. Players would scream for blood. Sampo Haarlaa Naerie Triad Honestly, as long as the author plays it fair, then I don't really see what the problem is. It isn't as if Monk 2/Barbarian 1/X is really all that much more powerful than Barbarian 1/X. And as I pointed out in another one of these threads, Monk X/Cleric Ys of Xan Yae and Zuoken should be frightfully common worshippers of those gods, not necessarily by players, but NPCs. And they are required to make that exact cheesy alignment change...
LGMoses 01-18-07, 11:53 PM	did you have your hand 1 set of keys off on your keyboard? or did someone at work use one of those little USB foam mimssile launchers to distract you by shooting you in the ear while you typed that. damn CN work colleagues. :rofl:
_m_ 01-21-07, 03:33 PM	:rofl: hey! dont laugh! the potential for disaster and serious injury is HUGE *grin*
LGMoses 01-22-07, 12:10 AM	I'm sorry, that was the funniest thing I'd read in a good while.
_m_ 01-22-07, 05:31 PM	I'm sorry, that was the funniest thing I'd read in a good while. wooo! glad im keeping some entert...*OW*... where the hell do those damn missiles keep coming from.... im the only one here!!! :P
Munkwunk 01-22-07, 06:19 PM	One of my characters has changed alignment. I started out my barbarian as being Chaotic Good, 'cause, well, barbarians are chaotic-ish and I didn't want him to be a selfish Neutral-type. CG seemed like a good fit for a barbarian with a 10(!) Intelligence. As I played him, I realized he was really adventuring 'cause he liked to help people. He didn't care so much about the money and rewards, he just liked saving the day and making people happy. That's more in line with Neutral Good, IMO, so I switched. No deity to attone to, no special class or alignment restriction problems. No harm, no foul. And, as his original alignment was never recorded anywhere (except his character sheet and maaaaybe his conversion AR?) I didn't feel the need to make note of it anywhere but his character sheet. My wife, on the other hand, had a hard time playing her monk as being LG. Not that she wanted to build a monk and then cross-class her in to something like barbarian, she just didn't have the lawful tendencies that she felt a monk should have. After quite some time playing her as a straight monk, conversion came around and she decided to convert her to Sacred Fist of Zuoken. Now, Zuoken -- as has been pointed out -- is TN. That leaves only one monk alignment for monks who worship Zuoken, and that's LN. My wife's character was certainly more good than neutral (and mroe neutral than lawful), so instead she opted to change her alignment to NG so she could worship Zuoken adn become a Sacred Fist. So she went from LG Monk to NG Cleric to Sacred Fist. Is there a problem here? No. At least, there shouldn't be. She had every reason to change her alignment, both in-character and out-of-character. Alignment changes shouldn't be that big of a deal to anyone. Whether the powergamer just does it build in to a class concept that he wants or a roleplayer does it to suit their character's personality better, the fact of the matter is that if it doesn't hurt anyone's enjoyment of the game then it's not an issue.
Morgen 01-28-07, 12:05 AM	Actually the monk I know is a reformed barbarian who went to the monestary. It happens.
RanielK 01-28-07, 03:48 PM	I started my Grey Elf Wizzy as CG. Seemed appropriate, as he was Good but did it his way. But after mod after mod and AR after AR of Chaos Wash this and curse warps your form that, CN seemed inevitable. Let's just put it this way, the Pale Triad came back with "Your right, he should be a Wild Mage . . ." when I asked for a special mission. Of course, they followed up with "are you sure you want this in the Pale?" It tickled me that my primary was among the first Wild Mages (and CN at that) in LG and was in the good ole LN Pale :P But then again, the Pale did have that one character who thought he was a sentient ioun stone, so go figure.
_m_ 01-29-07, 05:19 PM	I started my Grey Elf Wizzy as CG. Seemed appropriate, as he was Good but did it his way. But after mod after mod and AR after AR of Chaos Wash this and curse warps your form that, CN seemed inevitable. Let's just put it this way, the Pale Triad came back with "Your right, he should be a Wild Mage . . ." when I asked for a special mission. Of course, they followed up with "are you sure you want this in the Pale?" It tickled me that my primary was among the first Wild Mages (and CN at that) in LG and was in the good ole LN Pale :P But then again, the Pale did have that one character who thought he was a sentient ioun stone, so go figure. CN hero of the pale... work that one out.
andrew.pierson 01-31-07, 01:54 PM	I have a mechanic for this that I sometimes use in a homegame. I make a 3x3 chart of all alignments, then further subdivide each square into more 3x3 squares. The character puts a dot in one of the 81 squares. Every session they can "drift" to one adjactent 4-connected squares (up down left right). This generally means that a lawful character can turn chaotic in a minimum of 4 sessions, assuming they were never that lawful to begin with. The rate can be modified by changing the subdivisions. What happens when they act out of character is another story.
copper_wyrmling 01-31-07, 11:04 PM	I started my Grey Elf Wizzy as CG. Seemed appropriate, as he was Good but did it his way. But after mod after mod and AR after AR of Chaos Wash this and curse warps your form that, CN seemed inevitable. Let's just put it this way, the Pale Triad came back with "Your right, he should be a Wild Mage . . ." when I asked for a special mission. Of course, they followed up with "are you sure you want this in the Pale?" It tickled me that my primary was among the first Wild Mages (and CN at that) in LG and was in the good ole LN Pale :P But then again, the Pale did have that one character who thought he was a sentient ioun stone, so go figure. I've been expecting my Wild Mage to go from Chaotic Good to Chaotic Neutral for about ten of her eleven levels, but somehow, whenever she comes close, something happens to shift her back towards Good (most commonly, an anti-Scarlet-Brotherhood mission where she ends up acting like a Holy Liberator) ;)