Changing Alignment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Changing Alignment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
seraphimpunk
03-07-07, 06:11 PM Is there any TU cost or any penalty for changing alignment in LG?
Like if i wanted to go from a LG Paladin 1 and switched to CG so i could take a level of bard at 2nd?
ShinAkuma2
03-07-07, 07:54 PM There's no penalties or costs. You might get some dirty looks if you just change willy-nilly without a good RP reason, though.
Japangirl
03-07-07, 08:04 PM Bards don't have to be chaotic, by the way, just non-lawful. It makes a lot more sense for a paladin to slip from LG to NG than from lawful all the way to chaotic.

I don't know if this is a character that's already been played, but if you're going for a devoted performer, it's best to take the bard level first so that you can then go from NG to LG and never need an atonement. Losing all your paladin abilities makes that a dead level (only HP, armor and weapon proficiencies, and BAB) until the atonement back to LG, and you can't take any more paladin levels either.
Jay_Ibero_911
03-07-07, 09:05 PM Bards don't have to be chaotic, by the way, just non-lawful. It makes a lot more sense for a paladin to slip from LG to NG than from lawful all the way to chaotic.

I don't know if this is a character that's already been played, but if you're going for a devoted performer, it's best to take the bard level first so that you can then go from NG to LG and never need an atonement. Losing all your paladin abilities makes that a dead level (only HP, armor and weapon proficiencies, and BAB) until the atonement back to LG, and you can't take any more paladin levels either.

Devoted Performer lets you freely multiclass between Paladin and Bard...so the only complication with paladin first then bard is needing the atonement.
Japangirl
03-07-07, 10:14 PM You have to take 2 bard though, to take Devoted Performer as your 3rd level feat. You can't go Paladin/Bard/Paladin, if that was the plan. And until you get an atonement, I'd argue you can't take any more paladin levels at all.
Jay_Ibero_911
03-07-07, 10:27 PM You have to take 2 bard though, to take Devoted Performer as your 3rd level feat. You can't go Paladin/Bard/Paladin, if that was the plan. And until you get an atonement, I'd argue you can't take any more paladin levels at all.

Or you could do paladin/paladin/bard....either way you can take the feat....but the atonement is the messy part....
magebeast
03-08-07, 11:15 AM Or you could do paladin/paladin/bard....either way you can take the feat....but the atonement is the messy part....

Yes, but you have to change your alignment to non-lawful *before* you take the level of bard. You then lose your Paladin abilities. Then you take bard and the devoted performer feat, and you can freely multiclass, but you need an atonement before the Paladin levels will do you any good.
ShinAkuma2
03-08-07, 12:46 PM Yes, but you have to change your alignment to non-lawful *before* you take the level of bard. You then lose your Paladin abilities.

I think that's the point that's being made here.

You CAN do it. It's just a really rocky way to go.
Jay_Ibero_911
03-08-07, 05:03 PM Yes, but you have to change your alignment to non-lawful *before* you take the level of bard. You then lose your Paladin abilities. Then you take bard and the devoted performer feat, and you can freely multiclass, but you need an atonement before the Paladin levels will do you any good.

You don't have to lose your paladin abilities in play. You remain lawful good up until you get enough XP to reach level 3. Then after that mod you change you alignment and take bard. Or if you don't like that, you could just change your alignment at the end of the mod you would level. There's no restrictions on WHEN you can change your alignment....a PC could change his alignment every round if he wanted to...it's stupid, but he can.
Japangirl
03-08-07, 05:44 PM You still lose them once you hit level three though. Devoted Performer lets a bard be lawful so a paladin can stay Lawful Good, it doesn't let a paladin change his/her alignment. So at level 3, you have two dead levels and a bard level until you get an atonement, and at level 4 you couldn't take another paladin level even if you wanted to (unless you'd gotten that atonement already).

There's pretty much no way around losing paladinhood and thus taking dead levels if you start with paladin for a devoted performer build.
Jay_Ibero_911
03-08-07, 08:01 PM You still lose them once you hit level three though. Devoted Performer lets a bard be lawful so a paladin can stay Lawful Good, it doesn't let a paladin change his/her alignment. So at level 3, you have two dead levels and a bard level until you get an atonement, and at level 4 you couldn't take another paladin level even if you wanted to (unless you'd gotten that atonement already).

There's pretty much no way around losing paladinhood and thus taking dead levels if you start with paladin for a devoted performer build.

Yeah...but you might be able to get that attonement either in or immediately after your 1st mod at 3rd level. And at those low apl's, HP and BAB are pretty much all that matters, so playing one mod without smite and divine grace shouldn't be a big deal. I of course agree it's a needlessly complicated way to do it...but eh..that's up to the player in the end...
magebeast
03-08-07, 08:27 PM Yeah...but you might be able to get that attonement either in or immediately after your 1st mod at 3rd level. And at those low apl's, HP and BAB are pretty much all that matters, so playing one mod without smite and divine grace shouldn't be a big deal. I of course agree it's a needlessly complicated way to do it...but eh..that's up to the player in the end...

Honestly there's almost no reason *not* to take Bard first. It's a loss of 4 HP that nets you a ton of skills, and it's not like you can buy decent weapons or armor before you have a couple of ARs under your belt.
Japangirl
03-08-07, 09:20 PM Yeah...but you might be able to get that attonement either in or immediately after your 1st mod at 3rd level. And at those low apl's, HP and BAB are pretty much all that matters, so playing one mod without smite and divine grace shouldn't be a big deal. I of course agree it's a needlessly complicated way to do it...but eh..that's up to the player in the end...

Unless I had access to an XP atonement already sewn up, I wouldn't count on getting access. Those are normally Special Missions . . .
bitznarf
03-08-07, 10:37 PM Honestly there's almost no reason *not* to take Bard first. It's a loss of 4 HP that nets you a ton of skills, and it's not like you can buy decent weapons or armor before you have a couple of ARs under your belt.

Its actually even less then that. Pal1/Bard1 gives you 10 then 4 HP for a total of 14. Bard1/Pal1 gives you 6 then 6 HP for a total of 12. (Plus con bonuses of course).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
seraphimpunk 03-07-07, 06:11 PM	Is there any TU cost or any penalty for changing alignment in LG? Like if i wanted to go from a LG Paladin 1 and switched to CG so i could take a level of bard at 2nd?
ShinAkuma2 03-07-07, 07:54 PM	There's no penalties or costs. You might get some dirty looks if you just change willy-nilly without a good RP reason, though.
Japangirl 03-07-07, 08:04 PM	Bards don't have to be chaotic, by the way, just non-lawful. It makes a lot more sense for a paladin to slip from LG to NG than from lawful all the way to chaotic. I don't know if this is a character that's already been played, but if you're going for a devoted performer, it's best to take the bard level first so that you can then go from NG to LG and never need an atonement. Losing all your paladin abilities makes that a dead level (only HP, armor and weapon proficiencies, and BAB) until the atonement back to LG, and you can't take any more paladin levels either.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-07-07, 09:05 PM	Bards don't have to be chaotic, by the way, just non-lawful. It makes a lot more sense for a paladin to slip from LG to NG than from lawful all the way to chaotic. I don't know if this is a character that's already been played, but if you're going for a devoted performer, it's best to take the bard level first so that you can then go from NG to LG and never need an atonement. Losing all your paladin abilities makes that a dead level (only HP, armor and weapon proficiencies, and BAB) until the atonement back to LG, and you can't take any more paladin levels either. Devoted Performer lets you freely multiclass between Paladin and Bard...so the only complication with paladin first then bard is needing the atonement.
Japangirl 03-07-07, 10:14 PM	You have to take 2 bard though, to take Devoted Performer as your 3rd level feat. You can't go Paladin/Bard/Paladin, if that was the plan. And until you get an atonement, I'd argue you can't take any more paladin levels at all.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-07-07, 10:27 PM	You have to take 2 bard though, to take Devoted Performer as your 3rd level feat. You can't go Paladin/Bard/Paladin, if that was the plan. And until you get an atonement, I'd argue you can't take any more paladin levels at all. Or you could do paladin/paladin/bard....either way you can take the feat....but the atonement is the messy part....
magebeast 03-08-07, 11:15 AM	Or you could do paladin/paladin/bard....either way you can take the feat....but the atonement is the messy part.... Yes, but you have to change your alignment to non-lawful before you take the level of bard. You then lose your Paladin abilities. Then you take bard and the devoted performer feat, and you can freely multiclass, but you need an atonement before the Paladin levels will do you any good.
ShinAkuma2 03-08-07, 12:46 PM	Yes, but you have to change your alignment to non-lawful before you take the level of bard. You then lose your Paladin abilities. I think that's the point that's being made here. You CAN do it. It's just a really rocky way to go.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-08-07, 05:03 PM	Yes, but you have to change your alignment to non-lawful before you take the level of bard. You then lose your Paladin abilities. Then you take bard and the devoted performer feat, and you can freely multiclass, but you need an atonement before the Paladin levels will do you any good. You don't have to lose your paladin abilities in play. You remain lawful good up until you get enough XP to reach level 3. Then after that mod you change you alignment and take bard. Or if you don't like that, you could just change your alignment at the end of the mod you would level. There's no restrictions on WHEN you can change your alignment....a PC could change his alignment every round if he wanted to...it's stupid, but he can.
Japangirl 03-08-07, 05:44 PM	You still lose them once you hit level three though. Devoted Performer lets a bard be lawful so a paladin can stay Lawful Good, it doesn't let a paladin change his/her alignment. So at level 3, you have two dead levels and a bard level until you get an atonement, and at level 4 you couldn't take another paladin level even if you wanted to (unless you'd gotten that atonement already). There's pretty much no way around losing paladinhood and thus taking dead levels if you start with paladin for a devoted performer build.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-08-07, 08:01 PM	You still lose them once you hit level three though. Devoted Performer lets a bard be lawful so a paladin can stay Lawful Good, it doesn't let a paladin change his/her alignment. So at level 3, you have two dead levels and a bard level until you get an atonement, and at level 4 you couldn't take another paladin level even if you wanted to (unless you'd gotten that atonement already). There's pretty much no way around losing paladinhood and thus taking dead levels if you start with paladin for a devoted performer build. Yeah...but you might be able to get that attonement either in or immediately after your 1st mod at 3rd level. And at those low apl's, HP and BAB are pretty much all that matters, so playing one mod without smite and divine grace shouldn't be a big deal. I of course agree it's a needlessly complicated way to do it...but eh..that's up to the player in the end...
magebeast 03-08-07, 08:27 PM	Yeah...but you might be able to get that attonement either in or immediately after your 1st mod at 3rd level. And at those low apl's, HP and BAB are pretty much all that matters, so playing one mod without smite and divine grace shouldn't be a big deal. I of course agree it's a needlessly complicated way to do it...but eh..that's up to the player in the end... Honestly there's almost no reason not to take Bard first. It's a loss of 4 HP that nets you a ton of skills, and it's not like you can buy decent weapons or armor before you have a couple of ARs under your belt.
Japangirl 03-08-07, 09:20 PM	Yeah...but you might be able to get that attonement either in or immediately after your 1st mod at 3rd level. And at those low apl's, HP and BAB are pretty much all that matters, so playing one mod without smite and divine grace shouldn't be a big deal. I of course agree it's a needlessly complicated way to do it...but eh..that's up to the player in the end... Unless I had access to an XP atonement already sewn up, I wouldn't count on getting access. Those are normally Special Missions . . .
bitznarf 03-08-07, 10:37 PM	Honestly there's almost no reason not to take Bard first. It's a loss of 4 HP that nets you a ton of skills, and it's not like you can buy decent weapons or armor before you have a couple of ARs under your belt. Its actually even less then that. Pal1/Bard1 gives you 10 then 4 HP for a total of 14. Bard1/Pal1 gives you 6 then 6 HP for a total of 12. (Plus con bonuses of course).