Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FriendoftheDork 02-21-07, 08:43 PM	Hey I've recently made my first RPGA character, a grey elf wizard. Now, since I'm new to the living greyhawk rules, I have a few questions: 1. Is item creation worth it? It seems to me only a few are open and the nice wondrous ones (hat of disguise, headband of intelligence etc.) are not and must be found (and thus could be purchased anyway). 2. I've seen a few threads here talk about abusing xp penalty: Why? What is the benefit of lower xp? Doesen't it just makes it harder to survive the modules? 3. How is xp calculated? In my first game (module level 2) my 1st level wizard got no more xp than the 2nd level monk. While this is true also in standard game, will this continue? How can I ever close the (so far) minor gap?
Japangirl 02-22-07, 12:03 AM	Sun elf? I'm pretty sure you can be a High Elf, Wood Elf, or Grey Elf only, unless Sun Elves are just another name for one of those.
Jay_Ibero_911 02-22-07, 12:11 AM	Hey I've recently made my first RPGA character, a sun elf wizard. Now, since I'm new to the living greyhawk rules, I have a few questions: 1. Is item creation worth it? It seems to me only a few are open and the nice wondrous ones (hat of disguise, headband of intelligence etc.) are not and must be found (and thus could be purchased anyway). 2. I've seen a few threads here talk about abusing xp penalty: Why? What is the benefit of lower xp? Doesen't it just makes it harder to survive the modules? 3. How is xp calculated? In my first game (module level 2) my 1st level wizard got no more xp than the 2nd level monk. While this is true also in standard game, will this continue? How can I ever close the (so far) minor gap? 1) YES YES YES. Even with the limited list of things to craft, the savings in gold are huge. 2)The less XP you get, the longer it takes for your character to retire, meaning they collect more gold over their carreer and end up being more powerful for their level. 3)XP and GP are determined by the APL you play an adventure at. As long as all players at the table are within 2 levels of the APL, you all get the same XP and GP from the adventure.
FriendoftheDork 02-22-07, 09:53 AM	1) YES YES YES. Even with the limited list of things to craft, the savings in gold are huge. 2)The less XP you get, the longer it takes for your character to retire, meaning they collect more gold over their carreer and end up being more powerful for their level. 3)XP and GP are determined by the APL you play an adventure at. As long as all players at the table are within 2 levels of the APL, you all get the same XP and GP from the adventure. Hmm, alright I'll take your word for it. Any other tips? I want to take the herald level DM test, but it seems like I must wait for the DM I had to register properly before I can log in.
Jay_Ibero_911 02-22-07, 11:11 AM	Hmm, alright I'll take your word for it. Any other tips? I want to take the herald level DM test, but it seems like I must wait for the DM I had to register properly before I can log in. A wizards job is to be versatile. Make sure you scribe at least a few scrolls of some common utility spells as you level up. Knock is handy...scrolls of enlarge person are nice for level 1. Basically focus on spells that your caster level doesn't matter to much for.
Alpha_Nerd 02-22-07, 12:34 PM	Ok FotD, can I call you FotD? When you mentioned "closing the gap" I assumed you were playing with a group of friends and you wanted to catch up to them. If that's the case, then the difference of a couple thousand XP might seem like a lot in the earlier levels, but with how the table scales at around levels 5-6 you and your friend(s) will be the same level more than half the time, and you only get relatively closer ad you keep gaining levels. Also, crafting is great as if you ever get access to an item in the "Items Found" section you can now craft it. See access to a Ring of Arcane Might at APL 2 with no way to afford it? Take Forge Ring later on and pop one of those guy out!
FriendoftheDork 02-24-07, 04:14 PM	Yeah you can call me FotD, that was my old nick :) I asked for advice regarding Living Greyhawk in particular, I know how to play a wizard in normal D&D ;) More specifically, what feats or even PrC are nice given the acces I have, and tips regarding items, spells etc. Sun elf male wizard: str 6 dex 18 con 12 int 18 wis 8 cha 10 Feats: Improved Initative, elven proficiencies. Spells: Sleep, Magearmor, color spray, ray of enfeeblement, disguise self, charm person, magic missile. Ranged: Light crossbow, +4 attk, 1d8 damage. Melee: Longsword, -2 attk (just for show), 1d8-2 damage. Xp 450, gp 442. Home region Ahlissa(Nearie). Completed NAE6-02 First Bite, principality of Nearie. APL2. Tactics: Magearmor before combat, crossbow support, sleep spell cast at opportunity targets (3 out of 4 targets each time, 3 times in a row :D, pretty much saving the party.
Howie23 02-24-07, 05:05 PM	2)The less XP you get, the longer it takes for your character to retire, meaning they collect more gold over their carreer and end up being more powerful for their level. That used to be the case, but it is not anymore. Now that you get a GP penalty equal to your XP penalty, it means that you just progress slower, and get no benefit for your GP:XP ratio. Because you will fight more encounters for the same XP, you should be more conservative with consumables if you have an XP/GP penalty. To the OP: the abuse that could be used in the past is gone. It was never very useful if you were in a small play group anyway. The reason why the penalty could be abused is that, as you fell behind in XP, you just played at a lower APL table, where your equipment was more powerful. If you play with a small group of players, as is typical in small regions like Naerie, then you would have had the equipment of your peers, but less XP, and eventually lower level. David
Cardinal Teplin 02-25-07, 09:33 AM	A few points: Compare the spells you can choose from with the scrolls you can buy. Many of the more obscure spells are valid choices when you level up, but not as spells. Similarly you are likely to run into other wizards with their own spell books. It may be worth taking more obscure spells (from expansion books and the like) when you level if you can't choose them as scrolls. It's also worth looking at who you are playing with when you sit down. Playing in a regular group you get used to your wiuzard choosing spells to match the tactics of your party. Go to a con or start travelling, and radically different expectations arise. Because of this it's worth having a variety of spells to suit a variety of roles, more so than in a normal campaign. Create magic item is useful because you will gain access to far more items than you have a chance to buy. Many of these (adventure access) you can't go back and buy later once a certain time has passed. Create wonderous items allows to make these items later. It also allows you to get your items at half price, which it useful as wizards have to pay to scribe most of their spells, and will always, in LG at least, be strapped for cash.
FriendoftheDork 02-25-07, 03:07 PM	That used to be the case, but it is not anymore. Now that you get a GP penalty equal to your XP penalty, it means that you just progress slower, and get no benefit for your GP:XP ratio. Because you will fight more encounters for the same XP, you should be more conservative with consumables if you have an XP/GP penalty. To the OP: the abuse that could be used in the past is gone. It was never very useful if you were in a small play group anyway. The reason why the penalty could be abused is that, as you fell behind in XP, you just played at a lower APL table, where your equipment was more powerful. If you play with a small group of players, as is typical in small regions like Naerie, then you would have had the equipment of your peers, but less XP, and eventually lower level. David That's true, there is a limit to how many groups I can play with. ATM I can only play with 2-3 groups at once, as that's how many players actually play LG at my gaming club. I can probably also play once at Arcon with different groups (probably most lvl 1s), but even here no more than 20-40 people will be available. Since I'm low level I'm not gonna waste xp for the sake of it, as 1st level wizards are pretty crappy anyway and I'm very much risking death every time I play. Still, I think I'm going to take craft wondrous item anyhow, for the access and cheaper magic items. And I'm going to scribe a few scrolls now and then for emergencies and extra backup. Oh BTW I started with a scroll of expeditious retreat (not on my spell list) bought with my starting money, can I scribe this spell into my spellbook? I bought it just to be able to flee if things went badly, but I want to scribe it as well sooner or later. It's a good substitute for Haste. Teplin, I am pretty much aquainted with PHB spells but not the ones from other scources. Most of what I've seen are not that good, but occasionally a pearl is found. Any tips on what spells (lvl 1-3) I should try to get that is not core and open access?
Timlagor 02-27-07, 02:28 PM	That used to be the case, but it is not anymore. Now that you get a GP penalty equal to your XP penalty, it means that you just progress slower, and get no benefit for your GP:XP ratio. Because you will fight more encounters for the same XP, you should be more conservative with consumables if you have an XP/GP penalty. This is about crafting not multiclassing. There is no GP penalty for crafting but you do use up XP thereby improving your gp/xp ratio again (in addition to getting stuff half-price)
Timlagor 02-27-07, 02:36 PM	Since I'm low level I'm not gonna waste xp for the sake of it, as 1st level wizards are pretty crappy anyway and I'm very much risking death every time I play. It simply isn't true that 1st level wizards are "crappy". They are fragile but you will always be fragile. Sleep, Grease and Colour Spray are the triumvirate of first level spells. Still, I think I'm going to take craft wondrous item anyhow, for the access and cheaper magic items. And I'm going to scribe a few scrolls now and then for emergencies and extra backup. For low level spells you might well be better off simply buying the scrolls (where possible). Oh BTW I started with a scroll of expeditious retreat (not on my spell list) bought with my starting money, can I scribe this spell into my spellbook? I bought it just to be able to flee if things went badly, but I want to scribe it as well sooner or later. It's a good substitute for Haste. It's a good substitute for haste for you. It's no substitute at all for the rest of the party and wouldn't be even if you could cast it on them. You can scribe it into your spellbook: pay 100gp per page and scribe up to 1spell/level after any adventure. Teplin, I am pretty much aquainted with PHB spells but not the ones from other scources. Most of what I've seen are not that good, but occasionally a pearl is found. Any tips on what spells (lvl 1-3) I should try to get that is not core and open access? There are only 3 low level non-PHB spells I use with any regularity: Lesser Orb of Acid Distract Assailant Sonic Weapon (esp on Archers and monks) Mindless Rage also looks useful but i've never actually used it.
FriendoftheDork 02-27-07, 06:31 PM	It simply isn't true that 1st level wizards are "crappy". They are fragile but you will always be fragile. Sleep, Grease and Colour Spray are the triumvirate of first level spells. For low level spells you might well be better off simply buying the scrolls (where possible). It's a good substitute for haste for you. It's no substitute at all for the rest of the party and wouldn't be even if you could cast it on them. You can scribe it into your spellbook: pay 100gp per page and scribe up to 1spell/level after any adventure. There are only 3 low level non-PHB spells I use with any regularity: Lesser Orb of Acid Distract Assailant Sonic Weapon (esp on Archers and monks) Mindless Rage also looks useful but i've never actually used it. Ok, to clarify, low level wizards are crappy because: 1. Very low hp (anything can drop them in one round, many crits are likely to be instantly lethal). This is improved over levels, especially with good con. 2. Poor hand to hand and missile, although this only becomes worse as they level (compared to fighting PCs). 3. Very few spell slots, will quickly run out (2 1st level spells per day!). 4. Lack of the really powerful spells that comes later that lets them own any fighter of the same level. Example: A wizard with fly and protection from arrows is pretty much invulnerable to a typical fighter, while the fighters HP and AC is not enough to stop the wizard. Arcane casters are good at low level only because they can take out multiple opponents in one round. Very useful, but still the fighters generally must do the dirty work. Fighters etc. shines on lower levels, casters shine one higher levels. Now, over to spells: Expeditious retreat is inferior to haste, but for the next 4 levels it's the only thing I got to get away from combat easily. Even if the party is overmatched I can cast the spell and get away. As for your suggestions: i will take orb of acid (lesser), and check out the others at least. Do you remember which books they are in?
Rerednaw 02-28-07, 04:02 PM	Hey I've recently made my first RPGA character, a grey elf wizard. Now, since I'm new to the living greyhawk rules, I have a few questions: 1. Is item creation worth it? ... 2. I've seen a few threads here talk about abusing xp penalty: ... 3. How is xp calculated?... Welcome to LG! (I'm assuming it's LG and not Legacy or Xen'drik because you're in the LG forums.) :) 1. Depends. Scrolls of the low level spells are handy when you start to help supplement you relatively low spell slots. As you level up, you will find that you will tend to keep a few 'special' scrolls handy for infrequent situations. Don't go scribe happy like my wizard did and end up with a backpack full of unused scrolls. In general the other feats tend to vary from very useful (wondrous) to why bother. I'd consider what works for you? I actually haven't taken the craft wondrous item feat because the only things he wants to make he doesn't have access to. 2. There isn't a xp penalty in LG per se. The idea is if you stay at a lower level longer by crafting items you gain more gold by being able to play longer. 3. XP in LG is fixed. Every module you play has a pre-determined maximum. You will hear the words "cap" and "over-cap" fairly often. The xp your character gains is based upon average party level which sets the level of the module. If you happen to too low for a module you get half xp/ half gold. For example if you are level 1 and the rest of the party is level 6, you'll probably be 'playing up' the module at a harder level. If you survive, the only thing you may gain is better access. And yah you are correct on the Herald DM stuff. Typically it takes about 6-8 weeks for the RPGA to process the card you filled out. I took my Herald test once my membership was validated. And it was another month or two before I got the DM welcome packet.
jstorrie 02-28-07, 05:20 PM	The elf choices are high elf (ie, PHB elf), grey elf (+2 int/dex, -2con/str), and wild/wood elf (+2str/dex, -2con/int). High and grey elves both make good wizards. Contrary to what someone has said earlier, wizards are not crap at the low levels. Take a decent Con (at least 12, preferably 14) and don't skimp on Dex and Str. Use a longbow with your racial proficiency when you run out of spells/scrolls. Grease will destroy about 80% of the foes you face until APL6; colour spray and glitterdust are great too. The major problem with most low level wizards is that they focus on damage spells, but what use is a 1d4+1 magic missile in combats where the fighter already hits for 1d8+2? Grease, web, minor image, ray of enfeeblement, enlarge person, and the like will win encounters with only one round of action on your part, so use them. That doesn't mean that you can't segue into blasting, summoning, buffing, dominating, battlefield controlling or what have you once you get around level 5, but until you can drop around 6d6 per foe with a damage spell you shouldn't try to beat the fighters are their own game. A well-played low level wizard is still an incredible asset to a low-level group and in many cases I'd prefer them over a low-level cleric or druid. Do take Craft Wondrous unless you're in a small town where you always play with the same characters. If you can always find a game with an APL appropriate to your character level, Craft Wondrous is basically free money. The point of Craft Wondrous isn't to have cheap stat boosting items (though that's a nice bonus) - it's to have a backpack full of miscellaneous DMG items that normal characters wouldn't or couldn't purchase, that can solve strange problems. Alacritous Cogitation (Complete Mage) is a great first-level feat for wizards.
FriendoftheDork 03-01-07, 05:49 PM	The elf choices are high elf (ie, PHB elf), grey elf (+2 int/dex, -2con/str), and wild/wood elf (+2str/dex, -2con/int). High and grey elves both make good wizards. Contrary to what someone has said earlier, wizards are not crap at the low levels. Take a decent Con (at least 12, preferably 14) and don't skimp on Dex and Str. Use a longbow with your racial proficiency when you run out of spells/scrolls. Grease will destroy about 80% of the foes you face until APL6; colour spray and glitterdust are great too. The major problem with most low level wizards is that they focus on damage spells, but what use is a 1d4+1 magic missile in combats where the fighter already hits for 1d8+2? Grease, web, minor image, ray of enfeeblement, enlarge person, and the like will win encounters with only one round of action on your part, so use them. That doesn't mean that you can't segue into blasting, summoning, buffing, dominating, battlefield controlling or what have you once you get around level 5, but until you can drop around 6d6 per foe with a damage spell you shouldn't try to beat the fighters are their own game. A well-played low level wizard is still an incredible asset to a low-level group and in many cases I'd prefer them over a low-level cleric or druid. Do take Craft Wondrous unless you're in a small town where you always play with the same characters. If you can always find a game with an APL appropriate to your character level, Craft Wondrous is basically free money. The point of Craft Wondrous isn't to have cheap stat boosting items (though that's a nice bonus) - it's to have a backpack full of miscellaneous DMG items that normal characters wouldn't or couldn't purchase, that can solve strange problems. Alacritous Cogitation (Complete Mage) is a great first-level feat for wizards. Did you read my posts? I already chose to play grey elf (of course). As for your tips, I was mainly asking for tips relevant to LG, I know how to play a wizard. Although I must disagree with a few points: When I said that 1st level wizards suck, I was of course talking about relative to the fighting classes. I simply do not have the HPs, attack bonus, or damage to fight well. That's why I use area spells that can take down multiple opponents (sleep, color spray) in combat when needed, and let the fighters do the fighting. I chose to dump str... it won't benefit me much in the long run, and with a crossbow I'll do the same damage as with the longbow and 10 str. My attack bonus is alright because of my high dex, but using it is still not that effective. I'm not in a small town, I'm in the capitol of Norway (which is at best a large city), but that still means I can't get hold of many players and only know of about 20. I can probably get APL 2 often, as many guys just play once or twice, or change characters alot, but not matter. I'll take the feat but I won't waste xp.
UMiskatonic 03-05-07, 09:48 PM	One of the LG changes is that identify is less useful. Generally, if you can wait until the end of the adventure, you'll be told what the item is, and what it does. A scroll of identify is -occassionally- useful, but you won't need more than three in your entire career. You'll find that divinations vary in effectiveness from adventure to adventure. Hopefully, the author has thought about what might be available with, say, a scry spell. Sometimes, players will think of tactics that a author did not account for, and this forces a judge to think on his/her feet. Optimisitic judges will assume that it works, pessimistic judges will assume that it failed. Also, you will find that grey areas of the rules will vary in interpretation from table to table. For example, illusions that are 'unreasonable' are easier to see through. In a world where sorcerors can summon demons, and clerics call fire down from the heavens, I'm not sure what the average villager would find 'unreasonable'. For this reason, there are fewer illusionists in LG, because players want characters who work in a consistent fashion.
UMiskatonic 03-05-07, 09:54 PM	The most important change is actually NOT about you. It's about the rest of the table. Sometimes you'll be the most powerful character in the group, sometimes you'll be the weakest. Sometimes you'll be the only wizard, sometimes everyone is a wizard. LEARN TO ADJUST. Once, I had my bacon saved by our halfling wizard, who dimension doored right in front of the bad guy, staff raised high. He was full attacked, and did fine. As a 7th level character in a 4th level party, he had better AC and hit points than anyone else, and did respectable damage with his relatively expensive weapon too. I've also seen wizards do poorly When going to the temple of elemental evil to fight cultists and their elemental allies, the wizard in our group loaded up on enchantment spells, not taking a single defensive spell. He figured the higher level characters would protect him. We resorted to avenging his death instead, as some one teleported directly to him, and took him from totally unhurt to stone dead in six seconds.
Drezden 03-06-07, 02:36 PM	Put anticipate teleportation on your list of 3rd level spells to learn. lol It can be very useful to prevent the exact type of situation as the poster below mentions. Daren We resorted to avenging his death instead, as some one teleported directly to him, and took him from totally unhurt to stone dead in six seconds.