Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lomiat 02-15-06, 11:31 AM	There has been some discussion about what rules may be involved in crafting items with Use Magic Device, but no one has been able to present a clear solution. The LGCS allows casters to use scrolls to craft magic items, so could we please get some guidelines for using UMD to craft items from scrolls? Would a caster simply need to be able to succeed to cast from one scroll per day? Would we consider a character able to average out "taking 10," or would the character have to make the rolls in front of a DM? I have a Loremaster about to level who very well may put mucho ranks into UMD for this purpose, so I would like to know in advance if it might work. Thanks much!
Arvagor 02-15-06, 12:00 PM	Would we consider a character able to average out "taking 10," or would the character have to make the rolls in front of a DM?Per the skill description, UMD does not permit you to 'Take 10', so you would have to make the rolls in front of the DM.
Lomiat 02-15-06, 01:16 PM	Well, that's true enough, I guess. Perhaps the better question is whether or not a player would have to automatically succeed or would have to roll in front of a DM.
Medicelious-Melharmonac 02-15-06, 02:57 PM	As I read it in the LGCS you would be required to use a scroll or wand charge each day when creating the item. It states: "You can use a scrolled spell to satisfy the spell requirements, but you must use one scroll for every day of the creation process." Therefore if you tried to create say a Mask of the Skull you need to be able to cast animated objects, finger of death and fly 5 consecutive days in order to create the item. If you lacked these on your spell list then a wand or scroll could be used.
Maesto 02-16-06, 01:47 AM	But do you need the scrolls to be of the caster level of the item? For example, if I wanted to create a luckstone as a wizard/loremaster who doesn't have divine favour, would I need 20 scrolls of divine favour (caster level 5), or does caster level 1 suffice? This is quite important, as we can't get scrolls of caster level 5, 'coz they ain't in the DMG, only those of caster level 1, which by a strict interpretation doesn't exist. Furthermore, it's harder to UMD scrolls of caster level 5 as opposed to scrolls of caster level 1. Cheers, Jolyon
Medicelious-Melharmonac 02-16-06, 10:15 AM	But do you need the scrolls to be of the caster level of the item? For example, if I wanted to create a luckstone as a wizard/loremaster who doesn't have divine favour, would I need 20 scrolls of divine favour (caster level 5), or does caster level 1 suffice? This is quite important, as we can't get scrolls of caster level 5, 'coz they ain't in the DMG, only those of caster level 1, which by a strict interpretation doesn't exist. Furthermore, it's harder to UMD scrolls of caster level 5 as opposed to scrolls of caster level 1. Cheers, Jolyon Divine Favor is level 2 spell so its at least 3rd level. I would say that your CL would have to be appropriate to cast the spell. The item does not say Arcance CL or Divine CL so I would read CL as CL. *shrugs* its a good question.
blood_kite 02-16-06, 11:18 AM	Except that Divine Favor isn't a 2nd level spell. From the SRD: Divine Favor Evocation Level: Clr 1, Pal 1 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 minute Calling upon the strength and wisdom of a deity, you gain a +1 luck bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls for every three caster levels you have (at least +1, maximum +3). The bonus doesn’t apply to spell damage. Not that this really answers Lomiat's question. My answer to his question is that he should be able to do it with CL1 scrolls of Divine Favor bought out of the DMG. Just buy a few extra in case you roll a 1 on your UMD roll so you don't have to wait an extra day on the last day. Whether this is the correct answer or not, I don't know. It's also in question whether you need to be the minimum CL of the appropriate caster class or if meeting the CL requirement with any type of caster will do. This part isn't helped by the fact that LG is ignoring the FAQ entry on page 31 that states that the CL entry is the default caster level the item uses, not a requirement for creation. If LG were using that FAQ entry it would solve your problems, but the added headaches probably aren't worth it.
WotC_Tulach 02-20-06, 06:34 PM	Per the skill description, UMD does not permit you to 'Take 10', so you would have to make the rolls in front of the DM. Arvagor is correct. Keep in mind, you can use UMD for magic item creation, but the source of the spells used in creation needs to come from a scroll or wand, and you need to have enough scrolls/charges to create the item, if it takes multiple days.
Winnipegger 02-20-06, 07:10 PM	Hi, In case the question needs a cite, here's one: *************** http://www.theocracyofthepale.com/gamerules/circle_rulings.html#mic 1. Message 7609, 7634: Can someone use the "Use Magic Device" skill to create an object with either the "Create Wondrous Item" or "Craft Wand" feats? The "Use Magic Device" skill is used to activate a scroll of a spell not found on the creator's spell list. The activation of the scroll is used to create a magical item. The item in question was a wand of Entangle that was to be created by an arcane spell caster. You can't create a wand or scroll of spell you don't already know (as per the MIC rules in the LGCS). If you have the CWI feat, you can use UMD to activate a scroll to meet the creation pre-reqs, but you need one scroll of each spell for each day the creation takes (and need to make a check for every one of those scrolls) 2. Messages 7621, 7634: Is there an LG ruling that scrolls can be used to create magical items, wands, rings, etc ? If so where can it be found ? The DMG permits the use of scrolls to meet spell pre-reqs in MIC (see that section of the DMG). However, LG bans MIC of wands and scrolls without having the spell already. But it is allowed for other MIC. 3. Message 7624: One purchases 50 scrolls and attempts to use the "Use Magic Device" skill 50 times to make a wand of something not on their spell list. What are the consequences of failing a "Use Magic Device" skill check ? See the PH; the rules are clearly there. If you get a mishap, the scroll is wasted. 4. Messages 7629, 7630: If one has access to an item like a Vest of Resistance, +4 (via meta-orgs or AR's), can they make the less powerful versions of the item ? For example a Vest of Resistance, +3 ? No. -Steven Steven Conforti (RPGA # 154362) Living Greyhawk - the Circle *************** Keep in mind though that the LGCS has been edited once or twice since then, so any clause that contradicts the above statement in any of the revisions may supercede the above. But it did come from an official source, though. Hope that helps, --- Chris T
Lomiat 02-20-06, 10:43 PM	Arvagor is correct. Keep in mind, you can use UMD for magic item creation, but the source of the spells used in creation needs to come from a scroll or wand, and you need to have enough scrolls/charges to create the item, if it takes multiple days. Thank you. That was all I needed to know. So often in LG the system moves away from rolling (stats, hit points, starting gold, etc.) that I wasn't certain players could roll a CWI attempt in front of a DM.
Maesto 02-21-06, 12:20 AM	Whilst we're in rulings mode, do the scrolls that are being UMDed have to be of the caster level required to make the item, or doesn't it matter? Thanks, Jolyon