Circle Ruling Please: RE One of my feats, spells, classes, or items was changed. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Circle Ruling Please: RE One of my feats, spells, classes, or items was changed. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
paigeoliver
02-14-07, 01:06 AM The LGCS states this.

If a rules option is changed or
clarified, you may be given the same option, at the Circle’s
discretion.

I have a small sized halfling archer who has a 40 percent experience penalty. The rules on experience penalties have changed. I am asking the circle if I may change my class levels. I am currently fighter 4/Ranger 2/Barbarian 1. May I change my class levels to simply be a 7th level fighter?

Paige Oliver RPGA # 9551053
Britt
02-14-07, 01:07 AM No, this is not being allowed.
paigeoliver
02-14-07, 01:14 AM Thank you for your prompt reply.

Paige Oliver
Britt
02-14-07, 01:21 AM Sorry I can't say yes, but that's a blanket ruling.
ithardin
02-16-07, 11:44 AM But could this PC, using the retraining rules of the PHBII change one level at each level up and, albeit slowly, amend the XP/gold penalty?

Ian
GorTeX
02-16-07, 11:49 AM That's rebuilding, which isn't used..(ie. you can't use retraining to change out levels, just feats/skills/features/etc)
solbergb
02-16-07, 11:55 AM 4/Ranger 2/Barbarian 1.

The PC can fix most of his problem by taking a 3rd ranger level. 20% xp penalty isn't so bad.
ithardin
02-16-07, 01:08 PM That's rebuilding, which isn't used..(ie. you can't use retraining to change out levels, just feats/skills/features/etc)

Ahh, my mistake was confusing Paige's circumstances with my own PC who is a Dwarven Cleric and was granted access to Dwarven Racial Substitution Levels (which is on page 194-195 of the PHBII and falls within the language of the LGCS pg. 7 which states that "Upon gaining a new level, you may choose any one Retraining option in the Player's Handbook 2 192-195, following the rules listed there.).
Jay_Ibero_911
02-16-07, 01:12 PM 4/Ranger 2/Barbarian 1.

The PC can fix most of his problem by taking a 3rd ranger level. 20% xp penalty isn't so bad.

Uh, ranger 3 wouldn't change his XP penalty at all, he would still have 2 classes more than 1 level apart either way. He would need ranger 3 AND Barb 2 before he penalty would be reduced, and finally barb 3 to eliminate it completely.
ithardin
02-16-07, 01:29 PM "...I am currently fighter 4/Ranger 2/Barbarian 1..."

So in this situation the way to remedy the XP penalty would be to:

8th level: Ranger 3
9th level: Barbarian 2
10th level: Barbarian 3

Then you would have Fighter 4/ Ranger 3/ Barbarian 3.

Would taking the 3rd Ranger level at 8th reduce the XP penalty from 40% to 20%?
solbergb
02-16-07, 01:31 PM Twists brain around it.

Yeah you're right. Two levels to fix it and you get uncanny dodge and endurance and a fistfull of skill points, +1 to all three saves and two bab.

That doesn't exactly suck, as options go for the next two levels.

It could be a lot worse (my monk is going to be sucking up +40% xp penalty because he'll be monk12/wiz1/fighter1 However 100% of PRC's require stuff he doesn't have to qualify, monk13 is damaging (SR hurts his playstyle) and his racial class (barbarian) is forbidden for roleplay reasons. So I went with what he would have done roleplaywise and decided I didn't care that he advanced slower. Just means I get to play him more before retirement.
Alpha_Nerd
02-16-07, 03:41 PM While we're on the subject:

Britt my poor dwarf wizard only has an 8 Dex because I thought I was going to be able to use my Int instead, but then I got broad-sided and now my reflex save is terrible. Because of that, there isn't really a reason to go divine oracle 2 and pick up Prescient Sense since evasion won't help if I'm +2 to my Reflex save. Because of that, there's no real reason I should have taken skill focus: Knowledge Religion and no real reason to max knowledge: religion, but I already took my first level in divine oracle recently so I can't retrain out these :(

Please put back in Insightful Reflexes, I didn't notice it was gone until the non-draft was posted, and I don't really see how it's overpowering. Also, if you can't put it back, how feasible would it be to get my character to shift from an 18 INT and 8 Dex to a 16 INT and 14 Dex?
copper_wyrmling
02-16-07, 03:48 PM While we're on the subject:

Britt my poor dwarf wizard only has an 8 Dex because I thought I was going to be able to use my Int instead, but then I got broad-sided and now my reflex save is terrible. Because of that, there isn't really a reason to go divine oracle 2 and pick up Prescient Sense since evasion won't help if I'm +2 to my Reflex save. Because of that, there's no real reason I should have taken skill focus: Knowledge Religion and no real reason to max knowledge: religion, but I already took my first level in divine oracle recently so I can't retrain out these :(

Please put back in Insightful Reflexes, I didn't notice it was gone until the non-draft was posted, and I don't really see how it's overpowering. Also, if you can't put it back, how feasible would it be to get my character to shift from an 18 INT and 8 Dex to a 16 INT and 14 Dex?

Insightful Reflexes isn't Closed, just unlisted - so you could still request a special mission for it, if you really want it.
Crazy Boro
02-16-07, 03:55 PM Insightful Reflexes isn't Closed, just unlisted - so you could still request a special mission for it, if you really want it.

And if you already had it before the new LGCS, from my understanding, you get to keep it.
Alpha_Nerd
02-16-07, 04:02 PM And if you already had it before the new LGCS, from my understanding, you get to keep it.

That would be awesome, but I can't find anywhere in the LGCS where it states that. If you see it, could you let me know where?
Crazy Boro
02-16-07, 04:06 PM That would be awesome, but I can't find anywhere in the LGCS where it states that. If you see it, could you let me know where?

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure I saw it up on the main Living Greyhawk yahoo group. There's been so many messages on it that I'm not sure I'll be able to find it. We'll probably have to wait till Britt's return from DDXP for the official answer.
Crazy Boro
02-16-07, 04:33 PM Not in the LGCS that I know of, but I did find Britt's answer towards the question on the boards here. It's on page 5 of the LGCS CY597 thread and is post #144. I don't know if it was taken back though, but here is the link for that specific post: http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11421719&postcount=144
KarmaInferno
02-16-07, 05:31 PM The exact quote from that thread:

If you took something that is no longer Open but is also not Closed (like Insightful Reflexes), you can still keep it. Same for magic items that were crafted under old rules. These rules are not retroactive unless they say so or it was something you shouldn't have been able to do in the first place, like buying a strand of prayer beads for 25,800.

-karma

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
paigeoliver 02-14-07, 01:06 AM	The LGCS states this. If a rules option is changed or clarified, you may be given the same option, at the Circle’s discretion. I have a small sized halfling archer who has a 40 percent experience penalty. The rules on experience penalties have changed. I am asking the circle if I may change my class levels. I am currently fighter 4/Ranger 2/Barbarian 1. May I change my class levels to simply be a 7th level fighter? Paige Oliver RPGA # 9551053
Britt 02-14-07, 01:07 AM	No, this is not being allowed.
paigeoliver 02-14-07, 01:14 AM	Thank you for your prompt reply. Paige Oliver
Britt 02-14-07, 01:21 AM	Sorry I can't say yes, but that's a blanket ruling.
ithardin 02-16-07, 11:44 AM	But could this PC, using the retraining rules of the PHBII change one level at each level up and, albeit slowly, amend the XP/gold penalty? Ian
GorTeX 02-16-07, 11:49 AM	That's rebuilding, which isn't used..(ie. you can't use retraining to change out levels, just feats/skills/features/etc)
solbergb 02-16-07, 11:55 AM	4/Ranger 2/Barbarian 1. The PC can fix most of his problem by taking a 3rd ranger level. 20% xp penalty isn't so bad.
ithardin 02-16-07, 01:08 PM	That's rebuilding, which isn't used..(ie. you can't use retraining to change out levels, just feats/skills/features/etc) Ahh, my mistake was confusing Paige's circumstances with my own PC who is a Dwarven Cleric and was granted access to Dwarven Racial Substitution Levels (which is on page 194-195 of the PHBII and falls within the language of the LGCS pg. 7 which states that "Upon gaining a new level, you may choose any one Retraining option in the Player's Handbook 2 192-195, following the rules listed there.).
Jay_Ibero_911 02-16-07, 01:12 PM	4/Ranger 2/Barbarian 1. The PC can fix most of his problem by taking a 3rd ranger level. 20% xp penalty isn't so bad. Uh, ranger 3 wouldn't change his XP penalty at all, he would still have 2 classes more than 1 level apart either way. He would need ranger 3 AND Barb 2 before he penalty would be reduced, and finally barb 3 to eliminate it completely.
ithardin 02-16-07, 01:29 PM	"...I am currently fighter 4/Ranger 2/Barbarian 1..." So in this situation the way to remedy the XP penalty would be to: 8th level: Ranger 3 9th level: Barbarian 2 10th level: Barbarian 3 Then you would have Fighter 4/ Ranger 3/ Barbarian 3. Would taking the 3rd Ranger level at 8th reduce the XP penalty from 40% to 20%?
solbergb 02-16-07, 01:31 PM	Twists brain around it. Yeah you're right. Two levels to fix it and you get uncanny dodge and endurance and a fistfull of skill points, +1 to all three saves and two bab. That doesn't exactly suck, as options go for the next two levels. It could be a lot worse (my monk is going to be sucking up +40% xp penalty because he'll be monk12/wiz1/fighter1 However 100% of PRC's require stuff he doesn't have to qualify, monk13 is damaging (SR hurts his playstyle) and his racial class (barbarian) is forbidden for roleplay reasons. So I went with what he would have done roleplaywise and decided I didn't care that he advanced slower. Just means I get to play him more before retirement.
Alpha_Nerd 02-16-07, 03:41 PM	While we're on the subject: Britt my poor dwarf wizard only has an 8 Dex because I thought I was going to be able to use my Int instead, but then I got broad-sided and now my reflex save is terrible. Because of that, there isn't really a reason to go divine oracle 2 and pick up Prescient Sense since evasion won't help if I'm +2 to my Reflex save. Because of that, there's no real reason I should have taken skill focus: Knowledge Religion and no real reason to max knowledge: religion, but I already took my first level in divine oracle recently so I can't retrain out these :( Please put back in Insightful Reflexes, I didn't notice it was gone until the non-draft was posted, and I don't really see how it's overpowering. Also, if you can't put it back, how feasible would it be to get my character to shift from an 18 INT and 8 Dex to a 16 INT and 14 Dex?
copper_wyrmling 02-16-07, 03:48 PM	While we're on the subject: Britt my poor dwarf wizard only has an 8 Dex because I thought I was going to be able to use my Int instead, but then I got broad-sided and now my reflex save is terrible. Because of that, there isn't really a reason to go divine oracle 2 and pick up Prescient Sense since evasion won't help if I'm +2 to my Reflex save. Because of that, there's no real reason I should have taken skill focus: Knowledge Religion and no real reason to max knowledge: religion, but I already took my first level in divine oracle recently so I can't retrain out these :( Please put back in Insightful Reflexes, I didn't notice it was gone until the non-draft was posted, and I don't really see how it's overpowering. Also, if you can't put it back, how feasible would it be to get my character to shift from an 18 INT and 8 Dex to a 16 INT and 14 Dex? Insightful Reflexes isn't Closed, just unlisted - so you could still request a special mission for it, if you really want it.
Crazy Boro 02-16-07, 03:55 PM	Insightful Reflexes isn't Closed, just unlisted - so you could still request a special mission for it, if you really want it. And if you already had it before the new LGCS, from my understanding, you get to keep it.
Alpha_Nerd 02-16-07, 04:02 PM	And if you already had it before the new LGCS, from my understanding, you get to keep it. That would be awesome, but I can't find anywhere in the LGCS where it states that. If you see it, could you let me know where?
Crazy Boro 02-16-07, 04:06 PM	That would be awesome, but I can't find anywhere in the LGCS where it states that. If you see it, could you let me know where? Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure I saw it up on the main Living Greyhawk yahoo group. There's been so many messages on it that I'm not sure I'll be able to find it. We'll probably have to wait till Britt's return from DDXP for the official answer.
Crazy Boro 02-16-07, 04:33 PM	Not in the LGCS that I know of, but I did find Britt's answer towards the question on the boards here. It's on page 5 of the LGCS CY597 thread and is post #144. I don't know if it was taken back though, but here is the link for that specific post: http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11421719&postcount=144
KarmaInferno 02-16-07, 05:31 PM	The exact quote from that thread: If you took something that is no longer Open but is also not Closed (like Insightful Reflexes), you can still keep it. Same for magic items that were crafted under old rules. These rules are not retroactive unless they say so or it was something you shouldn't have been able to do in the first place, like buying a strand of prayer beads for 25,800. -karma