Combat reflexes and Surprise [Archive] - Wizards Community

Combat reflexes and Surprise [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
katrick
05-15-07, 11:02 PM Hello all, just looking for some clarification:
Under Surprise in the PHB bottm of pg137 it says,

Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don't get to act in the suprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dex bonus to AC.

Under combat reflexes it says,
With this feat, you may also make Aoo's while flat-footed.

So do you get to make Aoo's in the surprise round if you are unaware??
Most people i've talked to say yes...
katrick
Frumpkis
05-16-07, 02:15 AM Combat Reflexes allows you to take AoO's while flat-footed. This is different from being unaware.

If combat starts, and the bad guy appears out of a bush and charges past you, you get an AoO against him with your Combat Reflexes. You are surprised, and thus flat-footed, but you are aware of his presence because he has made it known.

However, if your DM asks you to roll for initiative, the bad guy is invisible and moving silently, and you fail your Listen/Spot checks, then you don't get an AoO on him. Even though you have Combat Reflexes, you are still not aware of your opponent. You detect no threat, so would have no reason to attack anything (unless you had another way of detecting the invisible sneaking guy, or were warned by another party member, or something).
JamesMaissen
05-16-07, 04:20 AM You detect no threat, so would have no reason to attack anything (unless you had another way of detecting the invisible sneaking guy, or were warned by another party member, or something).

You still cannot take AOOs on someone that has full concealment to you or if they have cover relative to you.

-James
ThaiGQ
05-16-07, 08:53 AM You still cannot take AOOs on someone that has full concealment to you or if they have cover relative to you.

-James

Unless you have Exotic Reach from the Exotic Weapon Master PrC. :D
Samwise
05-16-07, 02:40 PM Combat Reflexes allows you to take AoO's while flat-footed. This is different from being unaware.

Unaware isn't an actual condition. It is just flavor text that goes with describing surprised.
It is that flat-footed part that is relevant. As James noted, you can't AoO someone with full concealment, so even if you become aware of them (such as if they are using greater invisibility and remain invisible after attacking), you still can't AoO them.
Frumpkis
05-17-07, 04:08 AM You still cannot take AOOs on someone that has full concealment to you or if they have cover relative to you.

-James

D'oh, forgot that part. You're right.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
katrick 05-15-07, 11:02 PM	Hello all, just looking for some clarification: Under Surprise in the PHB bottm of pg137 it says, Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don't get to act in the suprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dex bonus to AC. Under combat reflexes it says, With this feat, you may also make Aoo's while flat-footed. So do you get to make Aoo's in the surprise round if you are unaware?? Most people i've talked to say yes... katrick
Frumpkis 05-16-07, 02:15 AM	Combat Reflexes allows you to take AoO's while flat-footed. This is different from being unaware. If combat starts, and the bad guy appears out of a bush and charges past you, you get an AoO against him with your Combat Reflexes. You are surprised, and thus flat-footed, but you are aware of his presence because he has made it known. However, if your DM asks you to roll for initiative, the bad guy is invisible and moving silently, and you fail your Listen/Spot checks, then you don't get an AoO on him. Even though you have Combat Reflexes, you are still not aware of your opponent. You detect no threat, so would have no reason to attack anything (unless you had another way of detecting the invisible sneaking guy, or were warned by another party member, or something).
JamesMaissen 05-16-07, 04:20 AM	You detect no threat, so would have no reason to attack anything (unless you had another way of detecting the invisible sneaking guy, or were warned by another party member, or something). You still cannot take AOOs on someone that has full concealment to you or if they have cover relative to you. -James
ThaiGQ 05-16-07, 08:53 AM	You still cannot take AOOs on someone that has full concealment to you or if they have cover relative to you. -James Unless you have Exotic Reach from the Exotic Weapon Master PrC. :D
Samwise 05-16-07, 02:40 PM	Combat Reflexes allows you to take AoO's while flat-footed. This is different from being unaware. Unaware isn't an actual condition. It is just flavor text that goes with describing surprised. It is that flat-footed part that is relevant. As James noted, you can't AoO someone with full concealment, so even if you become aware of them (such as if they are using greater invisibility and remain invisible after attacking), you still can't AoO them.
Frumpkis 05-17-07, 04:08 AM	You still cannot take AOOs on someone that has full concealment to you or if they have cover relative to you. -James D'oh, forgot that part. You're right.