Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jay_Ibero_911 02-14-08, 05:51 PM	I haven't had this come up before fortunately....but it doesn't seem to be covered anywhere on the off chance it would. Let's say I'm casting a full round spell, and in the meantime a shadow comes up and hits me for 4 points of strength damage...Would I just use the normal damage concentration DC? That would make it very easy to ignore ability damage while casting most of the time...(unless it came from a spell....then it could potentially be what the DC of the offending spell would be plus the level of my spell). Anyone actually have to rule on this before?
solbergb 02-14-08, 08:16 PM	The closest thing on the concentration chart to taking ability damage is just "damage". And while you may be able to accept the concentration check for ability damage, most of the time a caster is going to be VERY concerned about it (as you can be made helpless or dead by ability damage very quickly, and if on your casting attribute, might prevent casting the spell at all and at minimum will affect save DC's and bonus spells)
Jay_Ibero_911 02-14-08, 09:29 PM	The closest thing on the concentration chart to taking ability damage is just "damage". And while you may be able to accept the concentration check for ability damage, most of the time a caster is going to be VERY concerned about it (as you can be made helpless or dead by ability damage very quickly, and if on your casting attribute, might prevent casting the spell at all and at minimum will affect save DC's and bonus spells) Yes....well I was just thinking of this while thinking of effective anti-incorporeal strategies for my druid...since it's one of his biggest weaknesses...The 8th level spell Phantom Wolf could be useful since incorporeal creatures have no miss chance against other incorporeal creatures...but its one round casting time and duration of concentration REALLY limit it...I'll shortly be purchasing a strand of prayer beads so with the karma bead I could make a phantom stag with ghost touch and wounding antlers...plus can use etherealness on its rider too...without interfering with my own actions...could just take/retrain into transdimentional spell...use my single 8th level slot for a transdimensional sunbeam...I know a lot of undead who would not be happy to have that flung at them...especially since with one casting I'd have 5 shots with it...
Timlagor 02-15-08, 09:34 AM	I'd say for shadows you have to settle for the easy conc check ..most casters will be horrified enough! I would definitely use the Spell Save DC rules if it came from a spell though.
solbergb 02-15-08, 11:03 AM	The spell save DC rules work if it has a save, like Phantom Assailants. They don't work for stuff that just inflicts ability damage with no save, like ray of stupidity.
Jay_Ibero_911 02-15-08, 12:31 PM	The spell save DC rules work if it has a save, like Phantom Assailants. They don't work for stuff that just inflicts ability damage with no save, like ray of stupidity. Well they could potentially, since for a spell with no save you use the DC it would have if it allowed a save according to the concentration rules.
solbergb 02-18-08, 02:33 PM	What if it isn't a spell or spell-like ability? Shadow doing strength damage for example. No save. No spell level. No ability score to set DC's. In absence of the ability to set a DC, I think you have to just use the damage.
JamesMaissen 02-18-08, 02:45 PM	What if it isn't a spell or spell-like ability? Shadow doing strength damage for example. No save. No spell level. No ability score to set DC's. In absence of the ability to set a DC, I think you have to just use the damage. You could simply go with it's a distraction that causes 0 hp damage. -James
Jay_Ibero_911 02-18-08, 03:57 PM	You could simply go with it's a distraction that causes 0 hp damage. -James Certainly an option...though it doesn't feel quite right to me. Not really based on any RAW exactly, but it just seems that ability damage or drain should make concentrating a bit harder than that. Then there's the matter of con damage/drain, which indirectly causes a reduction in HP...I REALLY hope 4.0 is as clear cut as possible...though I know it's not likely...
Hariman 02-18-08, 09:13 PM	I'd say for shadows you have to settle for the easy conc check ..most casters will be horrified enough! I would definitely use the Spell Save DC rules if it came from a spell though. My sorcerer has STR 12 for more than one reason. Having that buffer against STR damage is one of them. He's also got Skill Focus Concentration for a reason too. The DM will have to make a decision if the attack doesn't have an obvious ability modifier or "spell level".
Rerednaw 02-26-08, 11:25 PM	Heh and if a caster gets hit for 8 points of Con damage? is the concentration check based upon 8 points or 4hp/level?
solbergb 02-27-08, 05:43 PM	same goes for something like enervation. Is it based on the 5hp/level? Who knows? The GM just has to do the best he can in that situation. Generally losing 8 con or 4 levels is going to have larger implications than a blown concentration check (plus you are at -4 to make the check...)
solbergb 02-27-08, 05:44 PM	You could simply go with it's a distraction that causes 0 hp damage. -James You could, but as concentration doesn't distinguish between nonlethal damage, hitpoint damage or ability point damage, I'd say damage is damage. Same way I rule for the interaction of augment healing and lesser restoration.
Maesto 02-28-08, 03:16 PM	Same way I rule for the interaction of augment healing and lesser restoration. Sheesh, never even thought about those two interacting ;-)
copperwyrmling 02-28-08, 08:25 PM	Sheesh, never even thought about those two interacting ;-) It's come up repeatedly when I'm GMing rather than playing - people asking if they can apply the 2pts/level to the healing of ability damage. I regard "damage" and "ability damage" as two separate things, and do not allow Augmented Lesser Restorations to heal 1d4+4 damage to the chosen stat. (My primary PC is a cleric with Augment Healing, btw: the other ruling would benefit me, I just disagree with it.) I could've sworn there was a FAQ ruling on this, but I can't find one.
solbergb 02-29-08, 02:36 PM	There isn't. There is only an amazingly stupid ruling on augment summoning that allows the feat to augment scrolls and wands :) As with many things, the interaction of augment healing and lesser restoration is up to the GM, as the rules aren't clear. The feat doesn't say "hitpoint damage" (ie excluding ability damage) and doesn't explicitly include ability damage either. Similar to the discussion on the concentration check. When they say "damage" how broad was the intention? Strong arguments can be made either way, but there are no actual rules clarifications anywhere.
TetsujinOni 02-29-08, 02:48 PM	There isn't. There is only an amazingly stupid ruling on augment summoning that allows the feat to augment scrolls and wands :) As with many things, the interaction of augment healing and lesser restoration is up to the GM, as the rules aren't clear. The feat doesn't say "hitpoint damage" (ie excluding ability damage) and doesn't explicitly include ability damage either. Similar to the discussion on the concentration check. When they say "damage" how broad was the intention? Strong arguments can be made either way, but there are no actual rules clarifications anywhere. Don't I recollect an interaction between sneak attack and ability damage from Necromancy? Negative energy damage rather than additional ability damage? Tough to call whether there's a relevant derivation of thought there.