Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Britt 02-08-07, 11:42 AM	Since the DC didn't go up last night and I don't know when it will, I'm posting the text here. This is not official, but it gives you something to talk about. Again, this is not official. Dispel Confusion Vol. 3, No. 2 February 2007 by Britt F. Frey If you have specific questions regarding the Living Greyhawk campaign, please post your questions on the official Living Greyhawk message board forum, located on the Wizards.community boards. All other questions regarding Dungeons & Dragons or the RPGA should be submitted though our customer service Knowledge Base, where you can reach our staff, or your question may already be answered online. Please note that answers received through these channels are considered merely advisory until they appear in the official FAQ or Errata. All references to the three Dungeons & Dragons core rulebooks refer to the version 3.5. This issue addresses “any Limited” favors, languages, Divine Metamagic, Divine Spellpower, and the “polymorph” errata. Q: How do I use favors that grant access to a Limited rules option of my choice? Does this give me access to anything from any book that is not specifically restricted? A: All such favors are immediately void until an errata is issued. If you have used such a favor, you must check with the issuing Triad to see if an errata has been issued. If such errata exists, you must change your selection to conform to the errata. If you have not used such a favor, you may not do so until an errata has been issued. Explanation: These favors assumed the existence of a specific list of Limited items, which has not existed for quite some time. A liberal interpretation of these favors granted far more access than was intended by the Circle. Some people have used these favors to gain access to rules options that were never intended to be allowed in the campaign. Q: I have taken a language that the new LGCS says requires campaign documentation. What do I do? A: If you do not have campaign documentation granting access to the language, you must replace it with another language to which you have access. Explanation: Some languages are not meant to be freely available, such as Rhopan. These languages require campaign documentation before you can learn them. Q: I see that Divine Metamagic and Divine Spellpower have moved to Closed access. How do I change my character to make it legal? A: When the 597 LGCS becomes legal, you are granted one free use of Retraining, per the rules in the PH2, to replace the affected feat. You may not make any other changes, such as replacing prerequisites, without campaign documentation. If you feel that you represent a rare situation and need special dispensation, you may contact your local Triad; however, special treatment will be uncommon, if it happens at all. Explanation: The Circle determined that these feats were creating unbalanced effects in the campaign and needed to be addressed. As the prerequisites for the feats are still perfectly viable for many character builds, we have not allowed free changing of the prerequisites in this case. If you do not wish to keep related rules options, you may still advantage of the new Retraining options when you gain levels, per the rules in the LGCS. Q: If LG is switching to the new “polymorph” rules, what do I do with my druid? A: Any character that has at least one level of druid that was gained before February 6th, 2007, may make the following changes. All such changes must conform to the rules for Retraining and Rebuilding in the PH2, but do not cost the character any time or gold: • Change any starting attribute scores and the bumps received every four HD. • Change any feats, other than magic item creation feats and Leadership. All such feats must have been legal choices as of February 1st, 2007. • Change any classes or prestige classes. You must keep at least one level of druid. All such class selections must have been legal choices as of February 1st, 2007. • If you have items that you feel have been significantly affected by these rules changes, you may contact your Triad. If they agree, you may sell the item for full purchase price. If your PC does not meet the above criteria, but you feel that you have been similarly impacted by the change to the polymorphing rules, you may contact your local Triad; however, special treatment will be uncommon, if it happens at all. Explanation: The change to the polymorphing rules significantly impact druids, substantially more than any other class. Without the option to rebuild their characters to some extent, many characters would become unviable. The Circle felt that druids would need to be able to change ability scores, classes, and feats to be able to correct their builds. Some items may also be significantly affected by this change, and we did not want to force the characters to lose the invested GP. Because of the vast number of permutations in possible druid builds, it is infeasible to limit the rebuild to specific classes, feats, or items. Asking each druid to contact their Triad about their desired rebuilds would be too much micromanagement and overload the Triads. The only feasible way to integrate the polymorph changes was to allow a rebuild of this sort. As we do not want to give druids too much of a benefit by allowing them to change into rules options that are just now becoming available, they are limited to what was available as of February 1st, 2007.
Howie23 02-08-07, 12:09 PM	Q: I see that Divine Metamagic and Divine Spellpower have moved to Closed access. How do I change my character to make it legal? A: When the 597 LGCS becomes legal, you are granted one free use of Retraining, per the rules in the PH2, to replace the affected feat. You may not make any other changes, such as replacing prerequisites, without campaign documentation. Retraining must be at a new level. The free retraining for casters impacted by this must wait until they gain a new level, correct? David
Britt 02-08-07, 12:13 PM	Retraining from when something is Closed is immediate. The Retraining rules just tell you how to do it in this case, not when.
Mommy was an Orc 02-08-07, 12:37 PM	A: Any character that has at least one level of druid that was gained before February 6th, 2007, may make the following changes. All such changes must conform to the rules for Retraining and Rebuilding in the PH2, but do not cost the character any time or gold: • Change any starting attribute scores and the bumps received every four HD. • Change any feats, other than magic item creation feats and Leadership. All such feats must have been legal choices as of February 1st, 2007. • Change any classes or prestige classes. You must keep at least one level of druid. All such class selections must have been legal choices as of February 1st, 2007. • If you have items that you feel have been significantly affected by these rules changes, you may contact your Triad. If they agree, you may sell the item for full purchase price. If your PC does not meet the above criteria, but you feel that you have been similarly impacted by the change to the polymorphing rules, you may contact your local Triad; however, special treatment will be uncommon, if it happens at all. I notice it doesn't say to change the skills? A lot of the Druids that are being affected by this ruling are the ones who tanked physical for mental - i.e. they had a higher Int than they ought to have had. It should be obvious that you redo skills if you change your mental stats, but it might be better to spell that out if a Druid changes their Intelligence, they must add/subtract skills while maintaining their current skill set as much as possible.
Britt 02-08-07, 12:41 PM	Skills are a function of class. If you change your class, you change your skills.
Jay_Ibero_911 02-08-07, 12:43 PM	With the rebuilding option in this case, do you go by what the original bas score was, or what it currently is with level bumps included? My gnome druid started with 12 STR, 14 DEX, 16 CON, 12 INT, 14 WIS, and 8 CHA after racial adjustments. He wears dragonhide full plate now, so I want to drop his dex by 2 (giving me 2 points) to increase his WIS by 1 (Costing 2 points to go from 14->15), but he put his 4th and 8th level stat bumps into WIS, so his base WIS is currently 16. I just noticed it says you can change any starting attribute scores, as well as the level bumps, so I want to make sure I'll be able to do this.
Britt 02-08-07, 12:44 PM	Yeah, that bit of confusion came up after I sent it in. Do it as if you were picking starting stats and applying level bumps.
Mortepierre 02-08-07, 01:00 PM	If you do not have campaign documentation granting access to the language, you must replace it with another language to which you have access. Just to be sure: are Abyssal, Celestial, and Infernal NONC or open? When the 597 LGCS becomes legal, you are granted one free use of Retraining, per the rules in the PH2, to replace the affected feat. So, to be able to retrain, I've to purchase a whole book? I realize WotC needs to make money but since retraining has been introduced to allow characters affected by rules' changes decided by the Circle to stay playable, would it have been too much to ask for a summary of retraining in the LGCS?
Britt 02-08-07, 01:03 PM	You can always go to your local book store and look at the rules. However, I think it's the second book a player should purchase and one of the first several books a DM should purchase.
sibyl 02-08-07, 01:03 PM	I had a favour that granted me access to a Limited Spell of (level X) or lower, which we had to write in. As far as I know, no errata has ever been published for this favour. According to the current Dispel Confusion, I no longer have access to this spell, correct? And I can't replace it with anything? *NOT COMPLAINING* I just want to be clear and legal.
Britt 02-08-07, 01:04 PM	Oh, and on languages, as long as you can take them normally, it's not a problem. The PH says when you can take Celestial and the like.
garyjohnson 02-08-07, 01:16 PM	Hi, Britt. Thanks for posting this here - it's much appreciated. A question, though: nothing in the Dispel Confusion about what to do if you have a now-closed spell on your spell list or as a class ability (but aren't a druid)? Cheers, Gary Johnson
Britt 02-08-07, 01:18 PM	Hi, Britt. Thanks for posting this here - it's much appreciated. A question, though: nothing in the Dispel Confusion about what to do if you have a now-closed spell on your spell list or as a class ability? Cheers, Gary Johnson You get a free immediate use of Retraining or Rebuilding to replace the Closed rules option.
Jay_Ibero_911 02-08-07, 01:29 PM	You get a free immediate use of Retraining or Rebuilding to replace the Closed rules option. So, for instance, a Tattooed Monk with the Chameleon Tattoo (Alter Self) would have to retrain? Gonna make one of my buddies a very sad panda...he just started using it too...
Britt 02-08-07, 01:30 PM	Tattooed Monk is being investigated.
garyjohnson 02-08-07, 01:32 PM	You get a free immediate use of Retraining or Rebuilding to replace the Closed rules option. Thanks, Britt - just to make it explicit, so there's no problems down the track, a Tattooed Monk with the Chameleon Tattoo class feature ("A character with this tattoo can use an alter self effect ...") can swap this tattoo for another tattoo? Cheers, Gary
Mommy was an Orc 02-08-07, 01:34 PM	Skills are a function of class. If you change your class, you change your skills. I'm talking about a Druid who doesn't change his class, but only his Intelligence stat - if someone who tanked Constitution to 8 drops his Intelligence 4, but raises his Constitution 4, he's got the skill points of someone with +4 Intelligence. Obviously people should change their skills, but the people most likely to make a Druid with an 8 Con are also the ones most likely to try to take you literally at your word.
Britt 02-08-07, 01:37 PM	I'm talking about a Druid who doesn't change his class, but only his Intelligence stat - if someone who tanked Constitution to 8 drops his Intelligence 4, but raises his Constitution 4, he's got the skill points of someone with +4 Intelligence. Obviously people should change their skills, but the people most likely to make a Druid with an 8 Con are also the ones most likely to try to take you literally at your word. Yes, skills in that case should be included. You could easily just say you are swapping one class for the same class and thus change all the associated effects.
ranagrande 02-08-07, 02:06 PM	When the LGCS is official, does the Druid retraining take place immediately, or does it happen on our next AR?
Britt 02-08-07, 02:09 PM	Immediately.
kegdrainer 02-08-07, 02:25 PM	Just to make sure I am reading this right. The changes to the Druid (class/feats) is what was in effect as of the old (596) LGCS and not the new one correct?
Britt 02-08-07, 02:28 PM	Just to make sure I am reading this right. The changes to the Druid (class/feats) is what was in effect as of the old (596) LGCS and not the new one correct? I don't understand the question.
kegdrainer 02-08-07, 02:34 PM	Per: • Change any feats, other than magic item creation feats and Leadership. All such feats must have been legal choices as of February 1st, 2007. • Change any classes or prestige classes. You must keep at least one level of druid. All such class selections must have been legal choices as of February 1st, 2007. I can only change the druid to classes/feats that are in the 596 LGCS as it is the one in effect on the 1st of Feb. Or was the date a place holder and I can use the new classes/feats (Knights, beguilers, etc) of the 597 LGCS
Britt 02-08-07, 02:40 PM	Per: • Change any feats, other than magic item creation feats and Leadership. All such feats must have been legal choices as of February 1st, 2007. • Change any classes or prestige classes. You must keep at least one level of druid. All such class selections must have been legal choices as of February 1st, 2007. I can only change the druid to classes/feats that are in the 596 LGCS as it is the one in effect on the 1st of Feb. Or was the date a place holder and I can use the new classes/feats (Knights, beguilers, etc) of the 597 LGCS Per the explanation, you have to use the Feb 1st rules, without any of the new inclusions. I used Feb 1st instead of the 596 LGCS because there have been several access changes through Dispel Confusions.
kegdrainer 02-08-07, 02:48 PM	Just wanted to make sure so that any druids I see are using the old rules and not the new ones when they rebuild/retrain. (ie, no Druid 5 becoming a Knight 4/Druid 1) However, that also means that they will still need to observe the 3rd level rule when they change things.
Gelth 02-08-07, 03:17 PM	Just wanted to make sure so that any druids I see are using the old rules and not the new ones when they rebuild/retrain. (ie, no Druid 5 becoming a Knight 4/Druid 1) However, that also means that they will still need to observe the 3rd level rule when they change things. Yep. They can however then use regular retraining to swap feats and such around when they level. --Penn, Ket Triad
clik_ml 02-08-07, 04:56 PM	Is there any form needed like for the previous campaign rebuild or the high level campaign rebuild? If not, then I assume that changes are not required to be documented- one must simply get out a new character sheet and rebuild per the specifications allowed. Thanks for posting this Dispel Confusion here Britt. I always appreciate the work you put in. - Erik ML
Maesto 02-08-07, 05:19 PM	Just a quick question for wizards here, which should probably be mentioned in the DC (if you can edit it). Wizards with Shapechange, Poly Any Object, Alter Self, and Polymorph get to reselect a spell of the same level, correct? I'm in the curious situation of having _every available_ 0th through 7th level spell. I assume I just lose polymorph and alter self? ;-) Cheers Britt, Jolyon
Timlagor 02-08-07, 07:42 PM	Aren't there some new spells you could swap to now?
boolean 02-08-07, 08:04 PM	Q: I see that Divine Metamagic and Divine Spellpower have moved to Closed access. How do I change my character to make it legal? A: When the 597 LGCS becomes legal, you are granted one free use of Retraining, per the rules in the PH2, to replace the affected feat. Is that one free use per now-closed item, or one use total? i.e. What happens if I had both Divine Metamagic and Divine Spell Power? Q: If LG is switching to the new “polymorph” rules, what do I do with my druid? A: Any character that has at least one level of druid that was gained before February 6th, 2007, may make the following changes.: • Change any feats, other than magic item creation feats and Leadership. All such feats must have been legal choices as of February 1st, 2007. • Change any classes or prestige classes. You must keep at least one level of druid. All such class selections must have been legal choices as of February 1st, 2007. What happens if, after changing my class levels, I no longer qualify for the MIC feats I have? Or am I required to have enough levels in a spell casting class to still qualify?
Golorious 02-08-07, 08:11 PM	Someone just posted about wizards but I was currious about sorcerers that have polymorph as a known spell or possibly Favored souls that may have a spell that is now banned. I'm assuming that they can just pick a different open access spell or spell that they have opened through AR access. Thanks! --- I see this was already answerd. Immediately retrain/replace spell.
Fell_Logic 02-08-07, 09:08 PM	As we do not want to give druids too much of a benefit by allowing them to change into rules options that are just now becoming available, they are limited to what was available as of February 1st, 2007. Does this apply to the free retrain for characters with Closed feats like DSP and DMM, or can those characters take advantage of the new Divine feats in PHB2?
Britt 02-08-07, 09:39 PM	Does this apply to the free retrain for characters with Closed feats like DSP and DMM, or can those characters take advantage of the new Divine feats in PHB2? The free retrain for something being closed has all the access of that time, which includes the new PH2 stuff.
Azerin 02-08-07, 09:52 PM	I had a favour that granted me access to a Limited Spell of (level X) or lower, which we had to write in. As far as I know, no errata has ever been published for this favour. Did we hear what the answer to this question was? I didn't quite catch it. I had access to a 2nd level spell for sandstorm, for example... do i lose access to it now?
dulgar 02-08-07, 10:31 PM	Just to clarify, what rules do the druid's wildshape follow once the new LGCS goes active?
Britt 02-08-07, 10:36 PM	Just to clarify, what rules do the druid's wildshape follow once the new LGCS goes active? The core rules, as described in the PH, including the errata to the PH.
Britt 02-08-07, 10:38 PM	Did we hear what the answer to this question was? I didn't quite catch it. I had access to a 2nd level spell for sandstorm, for example... do i lose access to it now? "You must check with the issuing Triad to see if an errata has been issued." If no errata has been issued and you already used it, you are fine. If an errata has been issued, you have to conform to that errata.
chesspiece 02-09-07, 09:48 PM	Q: If LG is switching to the new “polymorph” rules, what do I do with my druid? A: Any character that has at least one level of druid that was gained before February 6th, 2007, may make the following changes. All such changes must conform to the rules for Retraining and Rebuilding in the PH2, but do not cost the character any time or gold: • Change any starting attribute scores and the bumps received every four HD. • Change any feats, other than magic item creation feats and Leadership. All such feats must have been legal choices as of February 1st, 2007. • Change any classes or prestige classes. You must keep at least one level of druid. All such class selections must have been legal choices as of February 1st, 2007. • If you have items that you feel have been significantly affected by these rules changes, you may contact your Triad. If they agree, you may sell the item for full purchase price. If your PC does not meet the above criteria, but you feel that you have been similarly impacted by the change to the polymorphing rules, you may contact your local Triad; however, special treatment will be uncommon, if it happens at all. You might want to restrict PCs that only keep 1 level of druid. If they only keep 1 druid level and choose to make it their last one, then all they need is one death to make their rebuild complete. Perhaps specify that if Character Level >3 and they only keep 1 druid level, then the druid level must be taken before their last level?
chadp 02-09-07, 11:06 PM	I don't see a mention of Bear Warrior in this thread. Did I miss it, or is it perhaps in another thread? I realize that Tattooed Monk is still being considered, so the issues aren't yet closed. I also realize that Bear Warrior isn't overly troublesome, but I would personally like to see Bear Warriors given a chance to Rebuild out of the class, just to avoid the potential confusion and questions that might come up during play. Even if the Circle decides that the PrC is ok for the future, I would personally sacrifice the roleplaying and character-enhancing aspects of my Llerg-worshipper just to avoid the confusion at the table. Thanks again.
Timlagor 02-09-07, 11:10 PM	Are bear warrior affected in any way by the changes? They don't reference the polymorph rules in any way afaik.
Britt 02-09-07, 11:10 PM	Bear Warrior is fine. It mentions polymorph but doesn't reference it.
Nerax 02-11-07, 09:40 PM	Is there any form needed like for the previous campaign rebuild or the high level campaign rebuild? If not, then I assume that changes are not required to be documented- one must simply get out a new character sheet and rebuild per the specifications allowed. Thanks for posting this Dispel Confusion here Britt. I always appreciate the work you put in. - Erik ML I didn't see a reply to this and thought to bringing it up again. My wife has decided to retrain so I want to make sure we do it right.
soonerpat 02-11-07, 10:39 PM	"You must check with the issuing Triad to see if an errata has been issued." If no errata has been issued and you already used it, you are fine. If an errata has been issued, you have to conform to that errata. Hello Britt, Thanks for all the replies. They are very helpful! Let me spell it out this way and you correct/confirm. A druid takes a limited spell per access from a Module, year 5 in this case. 1. Errata has been issued. EZ, follow the errata. 2. No Errata has been issued 2A. You've selected the spell. You lose it until errata comes out, or you keep it until errata comes out, then follow errata? (Not sure here). 2B. You've not selected a spell/feat/etc. You must wait for Errata. thanks again. My main question is in 2A.
Britt 02-11-07, 10:41 PM	You keep it until an errata comes out.
elframrpga 02-11-07, 10:52 PM	[/QUOTE] So, to be able to retrain, I've got to purchase a whole book? I realize WotC needs to make money but since retraining has been introduced to allow characters affected by rules' changes decided by the Circle to stay playable, would it have been too much to ask for a summary of retraining in the LGCS?[/QUOTE] Why not just look at the article on the website that explains how it works? http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060501a&page=6 The PHBII was in a web enhancement article.
Evanta 02-12-07, 02:17 AM	Kindly allow more than 1 retrain for those hit by DSP/DMM nerfing please. There's always at least 1 more associated feat that becomes quite useless due to the nerf (e.g. Extra Turning that is doing nothing on my character currently) I'll ask for 2 free retrains, nothing else. I think those that got hit will appreciate the ability to fine-tune their characters towards another specialisation when the change was none of their fault and all the DSL / DMM builds became a lot weaker due to the ban.
sibyl 02-12-07, 01:24 PM	Re: limited spells & errata question(s) You keep it until an errata comes out. Thanks. I've asked my triad for errata/update but it could be awhile, so its nice to know I can still use the spell until then, if I need it. :)