Divine Spell Power [Archive] - Wizards Community

Divine Spell Power [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
delewobmesid
03-23-06, 06:46 PM Does Improved Turning, glory domain, and knowledge religion synergy affect turning checks from divine spell power? Is Charisma applied as well? Or is it turning check at only a +3 bonus? The wording is kinda confusing; do the 'usual' turning modifiers apply for this 'special' turning check or do they not apply? I'm sure that wasn't the author's intent to have 3rd level clerics with Glory Domain, Know Religion 5 ranks, Improved Turning, extra turning and diving spell power casting 7+ times a day with a caster level of +0 to +5
...
Never mind, it's pretty clear in the feat description.
solbergb
03-24-06, 03:37 PM Actually it's pretty clear that was indeed the author's intent.

All turning modifiers, plus an extra sacred bonus of +3 for the spellpower check.

It's probably the single most powerful cleric feat currently in the game (even divine metamagic needs "helper" feats...it usually takes 3 feats to work properly).
Lomiat
03-24-06, 05:18 PM Single most powerful cleric feat in the game? Arguably, it's a in a neck-and-neck race with Power Attack for the single most powerful feat in the game, period.

(Note: The above "arguably" acknowledges the premise that Power Attack *may* be of an equivalent power as a feat that regularly bumps up a caster level by 3.)
solbergb
03-24-06, 08:12 PM Well..I *did* say "cleric" feat.

Power attack isn't powerful without a high attack mod by some other means. It needs help, usually in the form of massive strength or feat combinations such as shock trooper, or class abilities that require a fair amount of sacrifice to get there such as the warchanter inspire recklessness.

Divine spellpower....pretty much just makes a cleric better, with no further investment. Any kind of cleric benefits, even the kind that doesn't cast offensive spells. It helps healing. It helps the GMW/Magic Vestment/divine favor/shield faith breakpoints for the melee-clerics. It helps banishing. It helps at least as much as spell penetration does, and sometimes as much as greater spell penetration. It uses a resource (turn attempts) that are far more expendible than what power attack uses (BAB). Given that your spell slots are *also* limited, it is not unusual for a cleric to be able to cast every level-dependent spell in his head spellpowered, and even when that isn't true, he can certainly spellpower every spell for a given combat, often two.
copper_wyrmling
03-25-06, 07:13 PM I agree that modifiers to the turning check apply as normal. One of my friends argues that the bonus from Consecrate (or Desecrate for rebuking clerics) doesn't apply - the spells give bonuses on "Charisma checks to turn (rebuke) undead", which he argues isn't the same as "turning checks" - but I think the wording of DSP is sufficiently broad to include these cases as well.

However, at least as I read the feat, Improved Turning does *not* give a free +1. The feat gives you a modifier to your caster level based on your result on the turning check table, which is a number between -4 and +4. You would normally then add this result to your effective cleric level to determine the highest-HD undead you can affect. Improved Turning affects the second part of this process (the effective cleric level), not the check itself. This interpretation is supported by the example in the feat description, which refers only to the result on the turning table, not the cleric's effective level for turning undead.
Timlagor
03-27-06, 12:03 PM Improved Turning most definitely does NOT affect the resulting caster level -read it carefully.

Most of the others do though.
solbergb
03-27-06, 02:41 PM correct, and neither does a sacred shield or anything else that affects the final hit dice of monsters affected.

All that matters for DSP is the *adjustment* to the hit dice that you get as a result of the turning table, which caps at +4.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
delewobmesid 03-23-06, 06:46 PM	Does Improved Turning, glory domain, and knowledge religion synergy affect turning checks from divine spell power? Is Charisma applied as well? Or is it turning check at only a +3 bonus? The wording is kinda confusing; do the 'usual' turning modifiers apply for this 'special' turning check or do they not apply? I'm sure that wasn't the author's intent to have 3rd level clerics with Glory Domain, Know Religion 5 ranks, Improved Turning, extra turning and diving spell power casting 7+ times a day with a caster level of +0 to +5 ... Never mind, it's pretty clear in the feat description.
solbergb 03-24-06, 03:37 PM	Actually it's pretty clear that was indeed the author's intent. All turning modifiers, plus an extra sacred bonus of +3 for the spellpower check. It's probably the single most powerful cleric feat currently in the game (even divine metamagic needs "helper" feats...it usually takes 3 feats to work properly).
Lomiat 03-24-06, 05:18 PM	Single most powerful cleric feat in the game? Arguably, it's a in a neck-and-neck race with Power Attack for the single most powerful feat in the game, period. (Note: The above "arguably" acknowledges the premise that Power Attack may be of an equivalent power as a feat that regularly bumps up a caster level by 3.)
solbergb 03-24-06, 08:12 PM	Well..I did say "cleric" feat. Power attack isn't powerful without a high attack mod by some other means. It needs help, usually in the form of massive strength or feat combinations such as shock trooper, or class abilities that require a fair amount of sacrifice to get there such as the warchanter inspire recklessness. Divine spellpower....pretty much just makes a cleric better, with no further investment. Any kind of cleric benefits, even the kind that doesn't cast offensive spells. It helps healing. It helps the GMW/Magic Vestment/divine favor/shield faith breakpoints for the melee-clerics. It helps banishing. It helps at least as much as spell penetration does, and sometimes as much as greater spell penetration. It uses a resource (turn attempts) that are far more expendible than what power attack uses (BAB). Given that your spell slots are also limited, it is not unusual for a cleric to be able to cast every level-dependent spell in his head spellpowered, and even when that isn't true, he can certainly spellpower every spell for a given combat, often two.
copper_wyrmling 03-25-06, 07:13 PM	I agree that modifiers to the turning check apply as normal. One of my friends argues that the bonus from Consecrate (or Desecrate for rebuking clerics) doesn't apply - the spells give bonuses on "Charisma checks to turn (rebuke) undead", which he argues isn't the same as "turning checks" - but I think the wording of DSP is sufficiently broad to include these cases as well. However, at least as I read the feat, Improved Turning does not give a free +1. The feat gives you a modifier to your caster level based on your result on the turning check table, which is a number between -4 and +4. You would normally then add this result to your effective cleric level to determine the highest-HD undead you can affect. Improved Turning affects the second part of this process (the effective cleric level), not the check itself. This interpretation is supported by the example in the feat description, which refers only to the result on the turning table, not the cleric's effective level for turning undead.
Timlagor 03-27-06, 12:03 PM	Improved Turning most definitely does NOT affect the resulting caster level -read it carefully. Most of the others do though.
solbergb 03-27-06, 02:41 PM	correct, and neither does a sacred shield or anything else that affects the final hit dice of monsters affected. All that matters for DSP is the adjustment to the hit dice that you get as a result of the turning table, which caps at +4.