Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rerednaw 03-21-07, 09:59 AM	Reading another thread made me think of this. Some turn-based feats state 'one of your Turn attempts' while other specifically state 'one of your Turn Undead attempts.' The feat Extra Turning adds 4 attempts to each type of what you can turn. See where this is going? If you can turn undead and say fire elementals, Extra Turning gives you 8 extra turn attempts. Does this mean you can fuel feats that state 'Turn attempts' with both sources? Intent may say no, but RAW cheese seems to smell yes. Anyone?
LachlarlanIII 03-21-07, 10:07 AM	I would say yes if the feat only specifies "turn attempts" and not "turn undead attempts." In fact, I'm tempted to make a build based around turning feats.
Lupo 03-21-07, 10:26 AM	Reading another thread made me think of this. Some turn-based feats state 'one of your Turn attempts' while other specifically state 'one of your Turn Undead attempts.' The feat Extra Turning adds 4 attempts to each type of what you can turn. See where this is going? If you can turn undead and say fire elementals, Extra Turning gives you 8 extra turn attempts. Does this mean you can fuel feats that state 'Turn attempts' with both sources? Intent may say no, but RAW cheese seems to smell yes. Anyone? while in the text of the feat it may only refer to "turn attempts" most divine feats refer to "turn undead" or "positive/negative energy", and the description of divine feats in "complete divine" states the same, so you can't use "turn/rebuke elementals" or "rebuke plants" to fuel divine feats UNLESS the feat states otherwise. search this boards and the yahoo groups, there you will find the exact pages and quoting as this has been asked before ;). it is a pity that only the "rebuke earth elementals" has been used for some other feats in "races of stone". i have an air/fire cleric who would like to have some use for his zillion of "elemental turnings/rebukes" ciao martin m.
Eric Anondson 03-22-07, 02:24 AM	i have an air/fire cleric who would like to have some use for his zillion of "elemental turnings/rebukes"Indeed, I have a fire cleric who has been waiting to use her rebuke/turn elemental special ability. Every encounter I have been tallying whether it was a fire or water sub-type creature. Eventually I finally encountered a wizard with an ooze mephit familiar. She did finally successfully turn a water subtype creature, that mephit! Only once and now she's level 9. Yay... I don't even consider elemental targets. Elementals are so pumped up with hit dice, and clerical turning is based off the HD of the target, it is impossible to turn elementals at APLs 6 and over. And nearly impossible at APL 4, CR 5 elemental has 8 HD, CR 7 elemental has 16 HD. What APL 6 cleric can hit a 16 HD target with turning? The elemental domain granted powers simply have to be the most useless granted power in the Core rules. Elemental domains are pretty much only useful for the spells. My fire cleric is having a blast with wall of fire, burning hands, produce flame, and fire shield. I can't wait to get her fire seeds and fire storm! I always keep an eye out for exploits to use up her elemental domain turning attempts. Wished divine feats would open up more to use them.
Lupo 03-22-07, 09:34 AM	Indeed, I have a fire cleric who has been waiting to use her rebuke/turn elemental special ability. Every encounter I have been tallying whether it was a fire or water sub-type creature. Eventually I finally encountered a wizard with an ooze mephit familiar. She did finally successfully turn a water subtype creature, that mephit! Only once and now she's level 9. Yay... I don't even consider elemental targets. Elementals are so pumped up with hit dice, and clerical turning is based off the HD of the target, it is impossible to turn elementals at APLs 6 and over. And nearly impossible at APL 4, CR 5 elemental has 8 HD, CR 7 elemental has 16 HD. What APL 6 cleric can hit a 16 HD target with turning? The elemental domain granted powers simply have to be the most useless granted power in the Core rules. Elemental domains are pretty much only useful for the spells. My fire cleric is having a blast with wall of fire, burning hands, produce flame, and fire shield. I can't wait to get her fire seeds and fire storm! I always keep an eye out for exploits to use up her elemental domain turning attempts. Wished divine feats would open up more to use them. yea, so far i once had a shining day with the cleric, a sorcerer was using "summon monsters" to try to suck our group up with "air elementals", i rebuked them and he had to spend precious standard actions to dismiss them :P. once out of 86 ARs :( ciao martin m.
jstorrie 03-22-07, 12:10 PM	This came up on Infinite Monkeys a while ago. While I don't remember the specific page that settled it, the consensus was that you can only use elemental-turning/rebuking for the divine feats which specifically say you can.
Hanyouhoushi 03-27-07, 09:13 PM	Top of page 32 of the FAQs (1/26/07 version 3.5) mentions that Divine Feats using Turning attempts must be from Turning/Rebuking Undead unless stated otherwise, such as Elemental Smiting.