Does MIC happen before or after the module? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Does MIC happen before or after the module? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
copper_wyrmling
11-24-06, 12:23 AM I've read the section on magic item creation in the LGCS, but I'm still a tad confused. I think most of my questions boil down to: do I craft before or after an adventure?

For example, can I craft items at the end of an adventure in which I levelled and gained the Craft Wondrous Item feat (assuming I got enough extra XP to pay for the item creation without delevelling myself again), or do I need to wait until my next adventure? Which AR do I cross off the TUs / gold / XP on? The LGCS refers to crafting after regionals and metaregionals, but then it says you need to bring your MIC documentation and have it filled in *before* the game...

These questions may seem a little silly, but I have a cleric about to level and take CWI (barring truly crazy feat access in the next game), and her play opportunities for the rest of this year are likely to be very limited, so I'd like to actually use those leftover TUs for something, and I doubt I'll have many games to do it in.
zigspatty
11-24-06, 12:50 AM You're required to have your MIC Logsheet filled out to have the judge check over before the adventure begins. At the judge's option, he can deal with the paperwork at the end of the session instead. Because the paperwork is supposed to be filled out at the beginning, I believe the spirit of the rules is that it takes place BEFORE the mod. I know most judges will allow you to use a MIC item during the mod if you've already presented the paperwork.

In general, it doesn't make a big difference when the MIC happens - before or after the mod - but I wouldn't expect to use a feat that I can't acquire until the end of the mod at the beginning of the slot. Too much can happen during the mod (dying, not gaining enough xp...)

Patty
copper_wyrmling
11-24-06, 02:40 PM You're required to have your MIC Logsheet filled out to have the judge check over before the adventure begins. At the judge's option, he can deal with the paperwork at the end of the session instead. Because the paperwork is supposed to be filled out at the beginning, I believe the spirit of the rules is that it takes place BEFORE the mod. I know most judges will allow you to use a MIC item during the mod if you've already presented the paperwork.

In general, it doesn't make a big difference when the MIC happens - before or after the mod - but I wouldn't expect to use a feat that I can't acquire until the end of the mod at the beginning of the slot. Too much can happen during the mod (dying, not gaining enough xp...)

Thanks for the response. Of course, I agree with your second paragraph: if my cleric is L14 for the whole game then she certainly can't possess an item that she can't make until she reaches L15! If crafting happens at the end of a module but paperwork is filled out beforehand, this is still an issue even if the PC isn't expecting to level: the character could always die halfway through the game and thus be unable to craft the item they planned.

As a judge, would you let me craft at the end of the mod (assuming I didn't delay the slot, due to having the paperwork already mostly filled out in the hope that I would level), based on the wording in the LGCS that you make items at the end of a scenario? Or is this illegal by the rules?

Basically, these are the types of situations I can think of when the answer to my question would make a difference:
1) If your PC had 6 TUs left, the module was listed as costing 2TU, and you wanted to craft an item costing 20000gp (=4 TUs); then during the module you were transported to another plane and had to take the expensive 6-TU option for returning. If you craft at the beginning of the mod, you would have your item and be down 6 TUs at the start of next year; if you craft at the end of the mod, you would be unable to craft the item and would be down 2 TUs at the start of next year.
2) The case I initially suggested, where your PC gains a level during the module and wants to craft an item that can only be made at the higher level.
3) If your PC loses a level / XP / gold during the module that was needed for the item creation you planned at the start of the game.

Of course, in most of these cases you could simply craft on your next game, but that may not be an option if you have trouble finding games or you're regularly playing games that aren't Core or from your home region / metaregion.
Japangirl
11-24-06, 11:54 PM What I have always been told is you craft before the mod. You have to spend the gold, xp, and TU before the mod ever starts.
copper_wyrmling
11-25-06, 12:08 AM What I have always been told is you craft before the mod. You have to spend the gold, xp, and TU before the mod ever starts.

And having noticed a paragraph I missed in the LGCS earlier, I think you're right.

What confused me was this line,
"Characters can create magic items after an adventure set in the character's home region or metaregion." (emphasis mine)

But then I was rereading the section and noticed a bullet point on the next page stating,
"Item creation occurs before the adventure starts... the DM verifies the costs on your AR at the end of the adventure."

So I think I'll just chalk the first point up to confusing flavor-text, and go with yours and Patty's interpretation. Thanks!

-Tracy
(looking forward to abruptly regaining 14 levels worth of expired AR access via CWI... although with my luck they'll change the rules but disallow people from changing the feat at the next LGCS revision ;) )
Maesto
11-26-06, 07:52 PM Crafting occurs before a module; technically you should have your paperwork ready at the beginning, and you have those items available for use in that module. You cannot craft at the end of the module using stuff from your new level; you craft it before your next module. Note that crafting can never de-level you; you're not allowed to do so. I have seen people rather annoyed because they only levelled by 150 xp, and wanted to make a 5000 gp item for 200 xp =)

At the very least, you need to have all crafting done before gp/xp is announced.

Cheers,

Jolyon
copper_wyrmling
11-26-06, 08:03 PM Note that crafting can never de-level you; you're not allowed to do so. I have seen people rather annoyed because they only levelled by 150 xp, and wanted to make a 5000 gp item for 200 xp =)

Yeah, but I levelled off a two-round mod, so I have something over 2000XP in the bank - I think I'll start with the orange ioun stone :) Then the cloak and periapt upgrades to crank my saves to F/R/W 17/13/25, then maybe the Alertness ioun stone for that precious Not This Time reroll, then perhaps some decent-level pearls of power...

(Yolande Morgenrood, cleric 8 / sacred exorcist 6 / contemplative 1 of Joramy, hugs brand-new CWI feat in anticipation of L15 shopping spree, now that I *finally* have some TUs to spare at the end of a year ;) )

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
copper_wyrmling 11-24-06, 12:23 AM	I've read the section on magic item creation in the LGCS, but I'm still a tad confused. I think most of my questions boil down to: do I craft before or after an adventure? For example, can I craft items at the end of an adventure in which I levelled and gained the Craft Wondrous Item feat (assuming I got enough extra XP to pay for the item creation without delevelling myself again), or do I need to wait until my next adventure? Which AR do I cross off the TUs / gold / XP on? The LGCS refers to crafting after regionals and metaregionals, but then it says you need to bring your MIC documentation and have it filled in before the game... These questions may seem a little silly, but I have a cleric about to level and take CWI (barring truly crazy feat access in the next game), and her play opportunities for the rest of this year are likely to be very limited, so I'd like to actually use those leftover TUs for something, and I doubt I'll have many games to do it in.
zigspatty 11-24-06, 12:50 AM	You're required to have your MIC Logsheet filled out to have the judge check over before the adventure begins. At the judge's option, he can deal with the paperwork at the end of the session instead. Because the paperwork is supposed to be filled out at the beginning, I believe the spirit of the rules is that it takes place BEFORE the mod. I know most judges will allow you to use a MIC item during the mod if you've already presented the paperwork. In general, it doesn't make a big difference when the MIC happens - before or after the mod - but I wouldn't expect to use a feat that I can't acquire until the end of the mod at the beginning of the slot. Too much can happen during the mod (dying, not gaining enough xp...) Patty
copper_wyrmling 11-24-06, 02:40 PM	You're required to have your MIC Logsheet filled out to have the judge check over before the adventure begins. At the judge's option, he can deal with the paperwork at the end of the session instead. Because the paperwork is supposed to be filled out at the beginning, I believe the spirit of the rules is that it takes place BEFORE the mod. I know most judges will allow you to use a MIC item during the mod if you've already presented the paperwork. In general, it doesn't make a big difference when the MIC happens - before or after the mod - but I wouldn't expect to use a feat that I can't acquire until the end of the mod at the beginning of the slot. Too much can happen during the mod (dying, not gaining enough xp...) Thanks for the response. Of course, I agree with your second paragraph: if my cleric is L14 for the whole game then she certainly can't possess an item that she can't make until she reaches L15! If crafting happens at the end of a module but paperwork is filled out beforehand, this is still an issue even if the PC isn't expecting to level: the character could always die halfway through the game and thus be unable to craft the item they planned. As a judge, would you let me craft at the end of the mod (assuming I didn't delay the slot, due to having the paperwork already mostly filled out in the hope that I would level), based on the wording in the LGCS that you make items at the end of a scenario? Or is this illegal by the rules? Basically, these are the types of situations I can think of when the answer to my question would make a difference: 1) If your PC had 6 TUs left, the module was listed as costing 2TU, and you wanted to craft an item costing 20000gp (=4 TUs); then during the module you were transported to another plane and had to take the expensive 6-TU option for returning. If you craft at the beginning of the mod, you would have your item and be down 6 TUs at the start of next year; if you craft at the end of the mod, you would be unable to craft the item and would be down 2 TUs at the start of next year. 2) The case I initially suggested, where your PC gains a level during the module and wants to craft an item that can only be made at the higher level. 3) If your PC loses a level / XP / gold during the module that was needed for the item creation you planned at the start of the game. Of course, in most of these cases you could simply craft on your next game, but that may not be an option if you have trouble finding games or you're regularly playing games that aren't Core or from your home region / metaregion.
Japangirl 11-24-06, 11:54 PM	What I have always been told is you craft before the mod. You have to spend the gold, xp, and TU before the mod ever starts.
copper_wyrmling 11-25-06, 12:08 AM	What I have always been told is you craft before the mod. You have to spend the gold, xp, and TU before the mod ever starts. And having noticed a paragraph I missed in the LGCS earlier, I think you're right. What confused me was this line, "Characters can create magic items after an adventure set in the character's home region or metaregion." (emphasis mine) But then I was rereading the section and noticed a bullet point on the next page stating, "Item creation occurs before the adventure starts... the DM verifies the costs on your AR at the end of the adventure." So I think I'll just chalk the first point up to confusing flavor-text, and go with yours and Patty's interpretation. Thanks! -Tracy (looking forward to abruptly regaining 14 levels worth of expired AR access via CWI... although with my luck they'll change the rules but disallow people from changing the feat at the next LGCS revision ;) )
Maesto 11-26-06, 07:52 PM	Crafting occurs before a module; technically you should have your paperwork ready at the beginning, and you have those items available for use in that module. You cannot craft at the end of the module using stuff from your new level; you craft it before your next module. Note that crafting can never de-level you; you're not allowed to do so. I have seen people rather annoyed because they only levelled by 150 xp, and wanted to make a 5000 gp item for 200 xp =) At the very least, you need to have all crafting done before gp/xp is announced. Cheers, Jolyon
copper_wyrmling 11-26-06, 08:03 PM	Note that crafting can never de-level you; you're not allowed to do so. I have seen people rather annoyed because they only levelled by 150 xp, and wanted to make a 5000 gp item for 200 xp =) Yeah, but I levelled off a two-round mod, so I have something over 2000XP in the bank - I think I'll start with the orange ioun stone :) Then the cloak and periapt upgrades to crank my saves to F/R/W 17/13/25, then maybe the Alertness ioun stone for that precious Not This Time reroll, then perhaps some decent-level pearls of power... (Yolande Morgenrood, cleric 8 / sacred exorcist 6 / contemplative 1 of Joramy, hugs brand-new CWI feat in anticipation of L15 shopping spree, now that I finally have some TUs to spare at the end of a year ;) )