Druid -> Greatclub + Shillelagh? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Druid -> Greatclub + Shillelagh? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rerednaw
05-14-07, 12:17 PM Hi. This came up during a mod I was running.

I was wondering if Shillelagh can be cast upon a greatclub. I've seen table variation.

The text of the spell says '...your club or quarterstuff' it specifically does not mention greatclub.

The druid in question had proficiency with the greatclub (one level of fighter) and wanted to use it that way.
KShaver
05-14-07, 12:36 PM It can not be cast on a greatclub. The wording 'club' does not include anything other than your basic club.
ShinAkuma2
05-14-07, 05:16 PM Indeed. This is in the same manner that Enlarge Person works on a humanoid. A Monstrous Humanoid is not a humanoid, and thus is not a legal target.

A greatclub is not a club, and thus not a legal weapon for use with Shillelagh.
Jay_Ibero_911
05-14-07, 07:00 PM Would be pretty powerful on a greatclub...going from 1d10->3d8 base damage...though you could wield a large club 2 handed to go from 1d8->3d6.
Dr.Cornelius
05-16-07, 04:57 AM Can any of you cite an official ruling?

I think there is a strong counter argument that club can mean a specific weapon or it can mean a class of weapons, along the lines that a Greatclub is a club in the same way that a Greatsword is a sword and a Composite Bow is a bow.

What evidence supports the "specific weapon" argument vs the "class of weapons" point of view?

In the absence of evidence I would be inclined to think that the "class of weapons" is consistent with the spirit of the spell.
Southernskies
05-16-07, 06:37 AM The spell states:
your own nonmagical club or quarterstaff...
and gives the exact examples of the size increase in damage.

Other spells:
Woodshape
you can made a wooden weapon
Magic Stone
as many as three pebbles, which can be no larder than sling bullets
Magic Fang
one natural weapon of the subject
Keen Edge
can be cast only on piercing or slashing weapons. If cast on arrows or crossbow bolts
Holy Sword
holy power into your sword, or any other melee weapon you choose
Flame Blade
you wield this bladelike beam as if it were a scimitar (requiring proficiency, unlike most spells)
Flame Arrow
you turn ammunition (such as arrows, bolts, shirken and stones)
Changestaff
specially prepared quarterstaff
Bless Weapon
the weapon is treated as having

Once you add in spells from other sources, like spikes and its ilk, if it was meant to be a broad category of weapons, it would have stated as such.
MatteBlack
05-16-07, 10:00 AM In this case, two specific weapons are listed. a "club" is an actual listed item whereas a sword could be seen as a class of items more easily because you can't buy any items listed as just a "sword". It's a "shortsword", "greatsword" or etc.

Also, consider the Greatclub with shillelagh and spikes being power attacked. Its bad enough on a club or quaterstaff.
kenobi65
05-16-07, 01:11 PM In this case, two specific weapons are listed. a "club" is an actual listed item whereas a sword could be seen as a class of items more easily because you can't buy any items listed as just a "sword". It's a "shortsword", "greatsword" or etc.

I think that's the strongest argument against your interpretation, Dr. C. If "club" were not the specific name of a weapon (unlike "sword", which is not), you might have stronger ground to stand on.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rerednaw 05-14-07, 12:17 PM	Hi. This came up during a mod I was running. I was wondering if Shillelagh can be cast upon a greatclub. I've seen table variation. The text of the spell says '...your club or quarterstuff' it specifically does not mention greatclub. The druid in question had proficiency with the greatclub (one level of fighter) and wanted to use it that way.
KShaver 05-14-07, 12:36 PM	It can not be cast on a greatclub. The wording 'club' does not include anything other than your basic club.
ShinAkuma2 05-14-07, 05:16 PM	Indeed. This is in the same manner that Enlarge Person works on a humanoid. A Monstrous Humanoid is not a humanoid, and thus is not a legal target. A greatclub is not a club, and thus not a legal weapon for use with Shillelagh.
Jay_Ibero_911 05-14-07, 07:00 PM	Would be pretty powerful on a greatclub...going from 1d10->3d8 base damage...though you could wield a large club 2 handed to go from 1d8->3d6.
Dr.Cornelius 05-16-07, 04:57 AM	Can any of you cite an official ruling? I think there is a strong counter argument that club can mean a specific weapon or it can mean a class of weapons, along the lines that a Greatclub is a club in the same way that a Greatsword is a sword and a Composite Bow is a bow. What evidence supports the "specific weapon" argument vs the "class of weapons" point of view? In the absence of evidence I would be inclined to think that the "class of weapons" is consistent with the spirit of the spell.
Southernskies 05-16-07, 06:37 AM	The spell states: your own nonmagical club or quarterstaff... and gives the exact examples of the size increase in damage. Other spells: Woodshape you can made a wooden weapon Magic Stone as many as three pebbles, which can be no larder than sling bullets Magic Fang one natural weapon of the subject Keen Edge can be cast only on piercing or slashing weapons. If cast on arrows or crossbow bolts Holy Sword holy power into your sword, or any other melee weapon you choose Flame Blade you wield this bladelike beam as if it were a scimitar (requiring proficiency, unlike most spells) Flame Arrow you turn ammunition (such as arrows, bolts, shirken and stones) Changestaff specially prepared quarterstaff Bless Weapon the weapon is treated as having Once you add in spells from other sources, like spikes and its ilk, if it was meant to be a broad category of weapons, it would have stated as such.
MatteBlack 05-16-07, 10:00 AM	In this case, two specific weapons are listed. a "club" is an actual listed item whereas a sword could be seen as a class of items more easily because you can't buy any items listed as just a "sword". It's a "shortsword", "greatsword" or etc. Also, consider the Greatclub with shillelagh and spikes being power attacked. Its bad enough on a club or quaterstaff.
kenobi65 05-16-07, 01:11 PM	In this case, two specific weapons are listed. a "club" is an actual listed item whereas a sword could be seen as a class of items more easily because you can't buy any items listed as just a "sword". It's a "shortsword", "greatsword" or etc. I think that's the strongest argument against your interpretation, Dr. C. If "club" were not the specific name of a weapon (unlike "sword", which is not), you might have stronger ground to stand on.