Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lavyan 01-28-07, 08:50 AM	I had someone ask me a question the other day: The wording for enhancing an Elvencraft bow is as follows (copy and paste from RoW): "Magical enhancements to an elvencraft bow only affect its use as a bow. Enhancements to the melee capabilities of the weapon must be added separately." How would masterwork effect an elvencraft bow? Do I need to pay 300gp for the Bow and 300gp for Quarterstaff? Is the description pasted above only referring to magical enhancements or all enhancements (including masterwork)? Masterwork items grant a +1 enhancement bonus to attack, that is why I ask. However, if we are only talking about magical enhancements then masterwork would apply to both aspects of the elvencraft bow.
haferka 01-28-07, 09:23 AM	Elvencraft bow IS a double weapon, so yes.. pay 300 gp for each "end" of the weapon to make both masterwork.
Arvagor 01-28-07, 12:31 PM	... and I was given the opposite answer. I.e., a masterwork elvencraft bow is not a double weapon, it is a masterwork bow that just happens to be sturdy enough to be used as a melee weapon, and is therefore masterwork "all over". The longbow version costs 675gp ( 75 for the bow, 300 for masterwork, 300 for elvencraft), while the shortbow version costs 630gp (30 for the bow, 300 for masterwork, 300 for elvencraft). This is based on the fact that the text states, "An elvencraft bow costs 300gp more than a normal bow." A normal MW longbow costs 375gp, and a normal MW shortbow costs 330gp. However, to enchant it as a melee weapon, you must (as the text states) still pay for melee enchantments separate from ranged enchantments. So a elvencraft longbow that has a +1 enhancement bonus all over costs an additional 6000gp (2000 for the ranged functionality, and 2000 for each end that can be treated as a quarterstaff).
Akhamshyy 01-28-07, 12:52 PM	I'd like to agree with you. Paying an extra 300 to make the club or each quarterstaff end masterwork adds up. But until I hear anything official I'd pay the extra cost. It can be refunded later if wrong. The flip side would be finding yourself short to make up the difference if an audit or ruling brought this up agianst you. They're neat triple weapons, E-craft longbows are, but troublesome too.
haferka 01-28-07, 01:43 PM	I don't have the book in front of me.. but I am curious if the description of "Elvencraft" says that it counts as masterwork?... If it does not.. then you would need to pay Masterwork for BOTH weapon uses. A double weapon is any weapon that allows you to do a full attack and attack with either end of the weapon with your attacks.. +7 BA = Bow/Bow/Staff... .. Now even I am thinking that this is 2 expensive.. becouse the "quarterstaff" is a double weapon in itself... thats 3 weapons (+300gp x3 for masterwork on all 3) yikes... Unless someone can find a rule (on way or the other).. I think its a double (tripple) weapon and thus requires multiple "masterwork" components.
Camden 01-28-07, 02:20 PM	I don't have the book in front of me.. but I am curious if the description of "Elvencraft" says that it counts as masterwork?... If it does not.. then you would need to pay Masterwork for BOTH weapon uses. A double weapon is any weapon that allows you to do a full attack and attack with either end of the weapon with your attacks.. +7 BA = Bow/Bow/Staff... .. Now even I am thinking that this is 2 expensive.. becouse the "quarterstaff" is a double weapon in itself... thats 3 weapons (+300gp x3 for masterwork on all 3) yikes... Unless someone can find a rule (on way or the other).. I think its a double (tripple) weapon and thus requires multiple "masterwork" components. Sounds about right. I know there was a discussion on this, somewhere on the Y! list for LG. I know that for the magical upgrades you do them seperatly Bow becomes a +1 Holy, this does not give the Staff Section +1 Holy, and when using the Staff you need to upgrade each bit seperatly.
clannagh 01-29-07, 06:32 PM	Sounds about right. I know there was a discussion on this, somewhere on the Y! list for LG. I know that for the magical upgrades you do them seperatly Bow becomes a +1 Holy, this does not give the Staff Section +1 Holy, and when using the Staff you need to upgrade each bit seperatly. a member of our triad ruled for me that elvencraft is more like template that allows you to combine two weapons thus with that interpretation for the staff version you need to mastercraft the bow and each end seperately for 900 gc and you have three seperate things needed to be magiced SILVER LINING ... an +1 elven craft bow with each end of teh quarter staff bit also +1 should gain 30 hit points (10 for each enhancement) and become much more difficult to sunder
Howie23 01-29-07, 07:42 PM	SILVER LINING ... an +1 elven craft bow with each end of teh quarter staff bit also +1 should gain 30 hit points (10 for each enhancement) and become much more difficult to sunder This has the feeling of bonuses stacking from the same source. David
clannagh 01-29-07, 08:32 PM	This has the feeling of bonuses stacking from the same source. David possible it could be argued that each +1 bonus is on a different section of the bow and hence no part of the bow is actually +3 and hence it only gains 10hp a counterargument is that as each +1 enhancement is in a different spot each unique section of the bow gains 10hp and hence its total hp goes up by 10 for each section for 30 hp over teh whole bow/quarterstaff i do not think this one is actually covered by the rules .. its probably yet another "expect table variation"
mowaca 01-30-07, 07:42 PM	possible it could be argued that each +1 bonus is on a different section of the bow and hence no part of the bow is actually +3 and hence it only gains 10hp I doubt double weapons double the benefits of a hardness/hp bonus, so I see no reason why a triple weapon would get them. Its a good question for customer service.
clannagh 01-31-07, 06:41 PM	I doubt double weapons double the benefits of a hardness/hp bonus, so I see no reason why a triple weapon would get them. Its a good question for customer service. indeed there are two equally logical possibilities: either - a double weapon gains extra hp and hardness based on the highest enhancement it has or - a double weapon gains extra hp and hardness for each magical enhancement that has been applied to it there are good arguments for both on a side note ... the wording implies the extra hardness/10hp in the FAQ only arises with an actual +1 enhancement (as opposed to something like flaming) but this also is unclear