Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Timlagor 02-16-08, 01:04 PM	This spell looks rather nice to have cast for my Centaur but there are a number of ambiguities. * Do I get my normal grapple modifier in addition to the +8 of does the +8 replace my normal mod for these special grapple checks? (I think yes) * If I choose to maintain the grapple but the target breaks free on their turn, do they remain entangled? (I think yes) * If I maintain the grapple and get the grapple check to constrict in the following round, do I get that check for free and then have my normal full round of actions? (yes) * Is there anything to prevent my joining the grapple while holding/wielding the staff? (no ..though there has been some debate about needing limbs to grapple ..this one is definitely questionable -does it matter that I'm a centaur-monk? I think not) * What if I used a medium quarterstaff one-handed? (large centaur) * What happens if I drop the staff while something is grappled? (target is released... immediately?) (...but I do have a vested interest ;) I consider it unambiguous that: * I do not add my strength to the damage done by the vines * I am not considered grappled while using this staff normally * The initial grapple check take no action on the wielder's part (beyond the initial attack) -consistent with the second-round check being free as well * Since I'm not grappled, I can use my hooves as normal
MwaO 02-16-08, 03:36 PM	* Do I get my normal grapple modifier in addition to the +8 of does the +8 replace my normal mod for these special grapple checks? (I think yes) It is a +8 Bonus. You add it to your normal grapple check. * If I choose to maintain the grapple but the target breaks free on their turn, do they remain entangled? (I think yes) I think that's an aspect of release. You have two choices: maintain grapple or release. Just think of it as being a free action to activate release or maintain - if they break free while you're maintaining, you've never used release on them. * If I maintain the grapple and get the grapple check to constrict in the following round, do I get that check for free and then have my normal full round of actions? (yes) Yes * Is there anything to prevent my joining the grapple while holding/wielding the staff? (no ..though there has been some debate about needing limbs to grapple ..this one is definitely questionable -does it matter that I'm a centaur-monk? I think not) I think once you've engaged in the grapple, you're grappling as per normal, except you have the additional option of 'release' * What if I used a medium quarterstaff one-handed? (large centaur) Not sure how this truly affects this, but you're taking a penalty to both hit and damage while likely hurting your primary attack - you likely do more damage with a large quarterstaff and *1.5 str vs large punch and *1 str. * What happens if I drop the staff while something is grappled? (target is released... immediately?) I don't think that's an option except via releasing or your opponent decides to let you go. As noted below, you're grappling your opponent * I am not considered grappled while using this staff normally I would strongly disagree with that. It doesn't say your staff grapples an opponent. It says "You can attempt to grapple creatures up to one size category larger than you."
Timlagor 02-17-08, 10:56 AM	I can't see where people are getting the idea that you are in the graple here. It seems really obvious to me that only the vines are grappling. (therefore the point of the smaller staff being that you have a hand free to enter the grapple properly with) The spell clearly (to me anyway) does not give you all the normal grapple options that you would get if you were in the grapple yourself. I see it as analagous to using a net.
tarrasque246 02-17-08, 11:36 AM	Every part of the description refers to 'you'..not 'the staff' you <snip> can attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. You can attempt to grapple creatures up to one size category larger than you. You maintain your hold. In subsequent rounds, you deal constriction damage with a successful grapple check. looks pretty clear to me that you are in the grapple Chris
awroe 02-17-08, 02:10 PM	Could you use multiple attacks with the staff to get multiple constrict damage if you choose Release after each succesful hit/grapple? (i.e. Hit with melee attack, win grapple check, Release, hit with iterative attack, win grapple check, release...) The spell seems to be giving you +8 to grapple, Improved Grab and Constrict (2d6). After each succesful grapple check to Constrict, you have a Release option (free action after the grapple check) on top of the usual Maintain option. Does that sound about right?
Timlagor 02-17-08, 03:30 PM	Tarasque: You can still grapple with the vines rather than normally. Given that's it's very unclear anyway I'm not inclined to give any weight to that. The spell certainly doesn't say anywhere that you are grappled when you use it and I would really expect it to say so if you were. Coupled with the fact that you can freely release the grapple without any check which you can never do when you are grappled I really don't see that as a viable position.
MwaO 02-17-08, 04:12 PM	Tarasque: You can still grapple with the vines rather than normally. Given that's it's very unclear anyway I'm not inclined to give any weight to that. The spell certainly doesn't say anywhere that you are grappled when you use it and I would really expect it to say so if you were. I'd find it a lot more likely that it involves the regular grapple rules with a couple of other additional options than it does involve using essentially Improved Grab with a hidden extra +20 bonus to your grapple check to compensate for the -20 for not grappling. Especially in the context that it is a swift action spell. Not for nothing, but this would go from my Monk Caster's "I'd like to have this" to being "I'd cast this as a Standard action Must Have. What do you mean it is Swift???"