Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rerednaw 02-25-08, 02:26 AM	Entangle (Ex): Each erinyes carries a stout rope some 50 feet long that entangles opponents of any size as an animate rope spell (caster level 16th). An erinyes can hurl its rope 30 feet with no range penalty. Typically, an erinyes entangles a foe, lifts it into the air, and drops it from a great height. Okay, I'll bite, how do you adjucate that? I was going to treat it like being entangled by a net. If you win the strength check then the subject can only move to the limit of the rope (plus he's entangled to begin with of course). I'm also assuming if the Erinyes wins the strength check she can move normally (subject to weight limits), while the foe is drug along. Does anyone else run it differently?
dkay807 02-25-08, 11:37 AM	I just don't bother. My Erinyes' shoot their bows and drop Unholy Blights. This is just another example of one of those "vague things" that will go away in 4th edition (I hope).
kjenks 03-01-08, 12:18 AM	Be careful of weight. An Erinyes flies with wings (presumably), it's a medium quadruped (by the MM definition) with Str 21. A creature who uses wings can only fly while carrying a light load (at most). Str 21 normally has a light load of "153 lb. or less." "Quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than characters can. Instead of the multipliers given above, multiply the value corresponding to the creature’s Strength score from Table: Carrying Capacity by the appropriate modifier, as follows: Fine x1/4, Diminutive x1/2, Tiny x3/4, Small x1, Medium x1-1/2, Large x3, Huge x6, Gargantuan x12, Colossal x24." So the erinyes' light load is 229 or less. Since many adventurers carry armor, weapons and gear, they are often heavier than an erinyes can lift while flying.
Arvagor 03-01-08, 12:55 AM	An Erinyes flies with wings (presumably), it's a medium quadruped (by the MM definition) with Str 21.Huh? That's a very interesting interpretation of "quadruped" to say that an erinyes has "four or more motive limbs" -- are you saying that because she has two legs and two wings? In the MM alone, that would mean that angels, trumpet archons, arrowhawks, cockatrices (cockatrix?), balors, nalfeshnee, succubi, quasits, vrocks, imps, horned devils, pit fiends, giant eagles, gargoyles, avorals, half-fiends, harpies, lillends, mephits, giant owls, rocs, pixies, wyverns, and any birds (eagle, hawk, etc.) would all be considered quadrupeds. :confused: Doesn't it make a little more sense (and in the spirit of the rules, IMO) to look at how a particular creature walks on the ground to consider whether it should be treated as a quadruped?
kjenks 03-01-08, 01:50 AM	"Motive limbs" pretty much says it all. By the silly rules, it's a quadruped. I don't make this stuff up. I just read it and wonder, "What on earth were they thinking when they wrote this?" For confirmation, look at the carrying capacity of a Giant Eagle. Using the same calculations, it's Str 18 (light load 100) and it's a large quadruped (x3), so its carrying capacity is 300 lb. The carrying capacity listed in its MM entry agrees. Ditto for Giant Owl.
Arvagor 03-01-08, 03:18 AM	"Motive limbs" pretty much says it all. By the silly rules, it's a quadruped. I don't make this stuff up. I just read it and wonder, "What on earth were they thinking when they wrote this?" For confirmation, look at the carrying capacity of a Giant Eagle. Using the same calculations, it's Str 18 (light load 100) and it's a large quadruped (x3), so its carrying capacity is 300 lb. The carrying capacity listed in its MM entry agrees. Ditto for Giant Owl. What, then, do we do with the spider eater? It's Str 21, with a light load listed as 306 lbs. putting it in the "Large, bipedal" category (x2) ... That doesn't seem to me to be much to go on, since chimera, dragonne, griffon, hippogriff, and pegasus are the only other flyers with explicit carrying capacities listed; all of those are obviously quadrupeds.
kjenks 03-01-08, 09:49 AM	What, then, do we do with the spider eater? We shrug our collective shoulders and sigh. Which one is the mistake? The two entries (giant eagle, giant owl) or the one entry (spider eater)? There are other examples in other books, also contradictory. DMG, page 205: giant eagle and giant owl carrying capacities listed in the table on the left contradict those given in the Monster Manual. Races of Stone, page 186, dire eagle: Str 20 (light load 133), size large (x2 for biped, x3 for quadruped), carrying capacity listed as 399 lb. So that implies that it's a quadruped, in agreement with the "birds are quadrupeds" principle from the MM giant eagle and giant owl entries. I looked into this question extensively when I was trying to figure out the carrying capacity of my druid's dire bat. The DMG (page 205, table on the right) lists the dire bat's carrying capacity as a biped, contradicting the theme given by giant eagle and giant owl. But the DMG isn't a primary source for this information, so the Errata says that we should ignore inconsistencies in this situation. So I believe that 2 legs + 2 wings = 1 quadruped, but the evidence for that belief is contradictory. Ask your DM.
solbergb 03-03-08, 01:38 PM	I've never been able to figure out the mechanic for the Eryines entangle in this edition of D&D, except vs flying creatures with wings. It is an exceedingly rare combat round when an Erynes wouldn't do better to shoot her bow or drop an unholy blight. I thint the only time I ever used the rope of entanglement was vs some kind of winged, flying creature that was at the moment the only credible threat in the party. Even then the goal was not to drag it anywhere, but to mess up its flight enough that the Eryenes could outmaneuver and thus ignore it while spamming unholy blights on the ground-based party. So I've never needed to worry about the mechanics, or the weight an erynes could lift (the other times they needed to carry weight, it was because they got grabbed by a monk or something, and in those circumstances the wings were not available to provide flight anyway)