Expanded Healer spell list source? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Expanded Healer spell list source? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Britt
02-09-07, 04:06 PM Someone mentioned that some book(s) gave options for expanding the Healer spell list. Does anyone know which book this is in so we can look at it? Of course, no promises on inclusion; I just want to look at it.
Alpha_Nerd
02-09-07, 04:14 PM While you're on the topic of expanded spell lists, IIRC the Spell Compendium does not have a single new Hexblade spell in it, but in the Complete books they have a sub-section on the magic chapters for using the new spells for the Hexblade. The only one I remember in particular was the Complete Adventurer. It had a box at the bottom of one of the pages and it showed what spells you should add to the Hexblade list from the book. It included stuff like Critical strike and such, but now that those are reprinted in the Spell Compendium, a Hexblade free source, they get kinda boned. Would it be possible to use the rules from the complete books to expand the Hexblade spell list, making it a much more viable class past level 2?
Franco Un-American
02-09-07, 04:14 PM The closest thing is the preface of the Spell Compendium. It recommends adding spells that heal, remove afflictions, and provide for needs/protections, as well as spells that are simply altered versions of spells already on the healer list (like mass restoration). I went through it some time ago for a home game, and found the following spells appropriate:

1: Faith Healing, Healthful Rest, Lesser Vigor
2:Healing Lorecall, Protection from Negative Energy, Summon Elysian Thrush
3: Vigor, Mass Lesser Vigor
4: Delay Death, Positive Energy Aura
5: Mass Sanctuary, Greater Vigor
6: Revive Outsider, Vigorous Circle
7: Renewal Pact, Mass Restoration, Fortunate Fate

Of course, remove any banned spells from that list. Hope this helps.
Mithreinmaethor
02-09-07, 04:14 PM It doesnt list specific spells but the Spell Compendium on page 3 says the following:

Healer (Miniatures Handbook): Add spells concerned with healing, removing afflictions, providing protection, and providing for needs. In particular add higher level spells the healer can already cast, such as mass restoration
dougemes
02-09-07, 04:14 PM Someone mentioned that some book(s) gave options for expanding the Healer spell list. Does anyone know which book this is in so we can look at it? Of course, no promises on inclusion; I just want to look at it.

Hi Britt.

Heroes of Battle (page 123) includes for Healers the spell "Status, Greater"

Check your gmail personal account for the spell description so I don't get in
trouble for posting it here =)
Crazy Boro
02-09-07, 04:54 PM Another possible spell, besides whats already been listed, is Stabilize which is a 2nd level spell from the Spell Compendium. (It might be a NONC spell though.)
Timlagor
02-09-07, 10:46 PM Franco's list is pretty good but I also have a...

Radical suggestion: let Healers get Mass Resist Energy.

It's hideous as a Cleric Spell at that level but Clerics are already the most powerful Class in the game while Healers don't even do their speciality as well as a dedicated Cleric does. Healer is a great looking class but it gets utterly hosed by being overshadowed by Clerics (one extra spell /level /day does not cut it against Turning [even without DMM]) -they don't even get spontaneous Cures!!

This is probably about the only way they could be beefed up in LG.
In adding spells to the list you'd also be free to choose the spell level for Healers.

If you're open to the idea there are other closed spells that could be considered: Last Breath springs to mind.

I suspect it's a bit much for this LGCS now but there's always DC...
Britt
02-09-07, 10:50 PM Ok, since there's no fixed list, if you want to help, go through the Open spells in the LGCS and pick out any of the new spells that seem appropriate for the Healer. Again, no promises, just something I will look into. You can also look at spells that aren't currently Open, but I can pretty much guarantee they won't be added.
copper_wyrmling
02-09-07, 11:30 PM These ones seem to fit the flavor:
Dance of the Unicorn (SpC)
Delay Death (SpC)
Healing Lorecall (SpC)
Healthful Rest (SpC)
Insignia of Healing (RD)
Naturewatch (SpC)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (SpC)
Renewal Pact (SpC)
Resurgence (SpC)
Resurgence, Mass (SpC)
Revenance (SpC)
Stalwart Pact (SpC)
Vigor (SpC)
Vigor, Greater (SpC)
Vigor, Lesser (SpC)
Vigor, Mass Lesser (SpC)
Vigorous Circle (SpC)

These I'm not so sure about, but they might be worth a look:
Cloak of Bravery (SpC)
Energy Immunity (SpC)
Insignia of Blessing (RD)
Insignia of Warding (RD)
Sacred Haven (SpC)
Spell Resistance, Mass (SpC)

Among the NONC spells from the SpC that aren't already on their spell list, the ones that jumped out at me on a quick skim were:
Death Ward, Mass
Delay Disease
Divine Protection
Faith Healing
Fortunate Fate
Positive Energy Aura
Restoration, Mass
Sanctuary, Mass
Sheltered Vitality
Stabilize

Franco's list looked good too: he had Protection from Negative Energy, Summon Elysian Thrush and Revive Outsider in addition to the ones I've listed.

(The poor Healers! Close Wounds is a L3 spell for them, despite being changed to L2 for clerics in the Spell Compendium; I don't suppose anything can be done about that?)
Crazy Boro
02-10-07, 12:08 AM Besides whats been said, I found the following that could possibly fit the class. Most are from new sources just coming in so I am aware that all of them are NONC, but I'm just throwing them out there for consideration.

CS
1: Healer's Vision

SS
2: Hydrate

Dragon Magic
3: Soul of Light

PH2
1: Invest Light Protection
3: Invest Moderate Protection
4: Channeled Divine Health, Healing Spirit
5: Invest Heavy Protection, Renewed Vigor (Spells List says 5th clr, but description says 4th)

HoB
6: Greater Status
Matherion
02-11-07, 02:31 AM You might also want to change close wounds to a second level spell for healers as spellcompendium droped the level of the spell from 3rd to 2nd

jeff
cycloptic_squirrel
02-11-07, 07:30 AM I'm in favor of everything on copper_wyrmling's first list with the addition of:

Expeditious Retreat, Swift
Friendly Face
Golden Barding
Sacred Haven
Winged Mount

with everything that refers to a mount affect the unicorn companion. I'd also support the addition of copper_wyrmling's third list with the additon of the following spells (should they become open):

G'elsewhere Chant
Holy Spurs
Ironguts
Lightfoot
One Mind, Lesser
Second Wind
Sticky Saddle

The PHBII spells Crazy Boro mentioned were good, but I'd also suggest:

Energy Aegis
Regroup
Rouse

I envision a healer being able to move from one end of a fight to another, hence the swift expeditious retreat, lightfoot, etc.
SirApropos
02-11-07, 09:24 AM Another issue you may have with the Healer is similar to the Beguiler in that the following spells on their lists are not Open by default but are NONC.

Close Wounds (3rd lvl for them but 2nd for Clerics)
Panacea
Revivify (Closed so it would be nice to have a replacement.)

So instead of just addressing Beguiler you may need to address Healer as well in this regard.
copper_wyrmling
02-11-07, 10:52 AM I'm in favor of everything on copper_wyrmling's first list with the addition of:

Expeditious Retreat, Swift
Friendly Face
Golden Barding
Sacred Haven
Winged Mount

Does a healer's companion count as a paladin's special mount for the purpose of spells? I had Golden Barding on my list originally, but then took it off because I didn't think it would work for them; they don't have Heal Mount on their list, and I would've thought that would be an obvious choice if it worked.

If you wanted to specify that the mount-specific spells affect the companion, then adding Heal Mount from the PH might be a thought.
cycloptic_squirrel
02-11-07, 11:33 AM Does a healer's companion count as a paladin's special mount for the purpose of spells? I had Golden Barding on my list originally, but then took it off because I didn't think it would work for them; they don't have Heal Mount on their list, and I would've thought that would be an obvious choice if it worked.

If you wanted to specify that the mount-specific spells affect the companion, then adding Heal Mount from the PH might be a thought.

Strictly RAW, I don't think the companion would count, but the rules are similar enough that I don't think it'd be a stretch to stipulate that healer companions count as a special mount.*

The special mount spells were very much in line with what I think a healer should be able to do. I see the spells as enhancing and emphasizing the special bond. I didn't think the spells had a high chance of being added, but mentioned them in the off chance the circle agreed with me.

*This reminds me, under the animal companion section, change the appropriate heading to "Paladin Mounts and Healer Companions", unless the above suggestion of equating them is taken.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Britt 02-09-07, 04:06 PM	Someone mentioned that some book(s) gave options for expanding the Healer spell list. Does anyone know which book this is in so we can look at it? Of course, no promises on inclusion; I just want to look at it.
Alpha_Nerd 02-09-07, 04:14 PM	While you're on the topic of expanded spell lists, IIRC the Spell Compendium does not have a single new Hexblade spell in it, but in the Complete books they have a sub-section on the magic chapters for using the new spells for the Hexblade. The only one I remember in particular was the Complete Adventurer. It had a box at the bottom of one of the pages and it showed what spells you should add to the Hexblade list from the book. It included stuff like Critical strike and such, but now that those are reprinted in the Spell Compendium, a Hexblade free source, they get kinda boned. Would it be possible to use the rules from the complete books to expand the Hexblade spell list, making it a much more viable class past level 2?
Franco Un-American 02-09-07, 04:14 PM	The closest thing is the preface of the Spell Compendium. It recommends adding spells that heal, remove afflictions, and provide for needs/protections, as well as spells that are simply altered versions of spells already on the healer list (like mass restoration). I went through it some time ago for a home game, and found the following spells appropriate: 1: Faith Healing, Healthful Rest, Lesser Vigor 2:Healing Lorecall, Protection from Negative Energy, Summon Elysian Thrush 3: Vigor, Mass Lesser Vigor 4: Delay Death, Positive Energy Aura 5: Mass Sanctuary, Greater Vigor 6: Revive Outsider, Vigorous Circle 7: Renewal Pact, Mass Restoration, Fortunate Fate Of course, remove any banned spells from that list. Hope this helps.
Mithreinmaethor 02-09-07, 04:14 PM	It doesnt list specific spells but the Spell Compendium on page 3 says the following: Healer (Miniatures Handbook): Add spells concerned with healing, removing afflictions, providing protection, and providing for needs. In particular add higher level spells the healer can already cast, such as mass restoration
dougemes 02-09-07, 04:14 PM	Someone mentioned that some book(s) gave options for expanding the Healer spell list. Does anyone know which book this is in so we can look at it? Of course, no promises on inclusion; I just want to look at it. Hi Britt. Heroes of Battle (page 123) includes for Healers the spell "Status, Greater" Check your gmail personal account for the spell description so I don't get in trouble for posting it here =)
Crazy Boro 02-09-07, 04:54 PM	Another possible spell, besides whats already been listed, is Stabilize which is a 2nd level spell from the Spell Compendium. (It might be a NONC spell though.)
Timlagor 02-09-07, 10:46 PM	Franco's list is pretty good but I also have a... Radical suggestion: let Healers get Mass Resist Energy. It's hideous as a Cleric Spell at that level but Clerics are already the most powerful Class in the game while Healers don't even do their speciality as well as a dedicated Cleric does. Healer is a great looking class but it gets utterly hosed by being overshadowed by Clerics (one extra spell /level /day does not cut it against Turning [even without DMM]) -they don't even get spontaneous Cures!! This is probably about the only way they could be beefed up in LG. In adding spells to the list you'd also be free to choose the spell level for Healers. If you're open to the idea there are other closed spells that could be considered: Last Breath springs to mind. I suspect it's a bit much for this LGCS now but there's always DC...
Britt 02-09-07, 10:50 PM	Ok, since there's no fixed list, if you want to help, go through the Open spells in the LGCS and pick out any of the new spells that seem appropriate for the Healer. Again, no promises, just something I will look into. You can also look at spells that aren't currently Open, but I can pretty much guarantee they won't be added.
copper_wyrmling 02-09-07, 11:30 PM	These ones seem to fit the flavor: Dance of the Unicorn (SpC) Delay Death (SpC) Healing Lorecall (SpC) Healthful Rest (SpC) Insignia of Healing (RD) Naturewatch (SpC) Rejuvenation Cocoon (SpC) Renewal Pact (SpC) Resurgence (SpC) Resurgence, Mass (SpC) Revenance (SpC) Stalwart Pact (SpC) Vigor (SpC) Vigor, Greater (SpC) Vigor, Lesser (SpC) Vigor, Mass Lesser (SpC) Vigorous Circle (SpC) These I'm not so sure about, but they might be worth a look: Cloak of Bravery (SpC) Energy Immunity (SpC) Insignia of Blessing (RD) Insignia of Warding (RD) Sacred Haven (SpC) Spell Resistance, Mass (SpC) Among the NONC spells from the SpC that aren't already on their spell list, the ones that jumped out at me on a quick skim were: Death Ward, Mass Delay Disease Divine Protection Faith Healing Fortunate Fate Positive Energy Aura Restoration, Mass Sanctuary, Mass Sheltered Vitality Stabilize Franco's list looked good too: he had Protection from Negative Energy, Summon Elysian Thrush and Revive Outsider in addition to the ones I've listed. (The poor Healers! Close Wounds is a L3 spell for them, despite being changed to L2 for clerics in the Spell Compendium; I don't suppose anything can be done about that?)
Crazy Boro 02-10-07, 12:08 AM	Besides whats been said, I found the following that could possibly fit the class. Most are from new sources just coming in so I am aware that all of them are NONC, but I'm just throwing them out there for consideration. CS 1: Healer's Vision SS 2: Hydrate Dragon Magic 3: Soul of Light PH2 1: Invest Light Protection 3: Invest Moderate Protection 4: Channeled Divine Health, Healing Spirit 5: Invest Heavy Protection, Renewed Vigor (Spells List says 5th clr, but description says 4th) HoB 6: Greater Status
Matherion 02-11-07, 02:31 AM	You might also want to change close wounds to a second level spell for healers as spellcompendium droped the level of the spell from 3rd to 2nd jeff
cycloptic_squirrel 02-11-07, 07:30 AM	I'm in favor of everything on copper_wyrmling's first list with the addition of: Expeditious Retreat, Swift Friendly Face Golden Barding Sacred Haven Winged Mount with everything that refers to a mount affect the unicorn companion. I'd also support the addition of copper_wyrmling's third list with the additon of the following spells (should they become open): G'elsewhere Chant Holy Spurs Ironguts Lightfoot One Mind, Lesser Second Wind Sticky Saddle The PHBII spells Crazy Boro mentioned were good, but I'd also suggest: Energy Aegis Regroup Rouse I envision a healer being able to move from one end of a fight to another, hence the swift expeditious retreat, lightfoot, etc.
SirApropos 02-11-07, 09:24 AM	Another issue you may have with the Healer is similar to the Beguiler in that the following spells on their lists are not Open by default but are NONC. Close Wounds (3rd lvl for them but 2nd for Clerics) Panacea Revivify (Closed so it would be nice to have a replacement.) So instead of just addressing Beguiler you may need to address Healer as well in this regard.
copper_wyrmling 02-11-07, 10:52 AM	I'm in favor of everything on copper_wyrmling's first list with the addition of: Expeditious Retreat, Swift Friendly Face Golden Barding Sacred Haven Winged Mount Does a healer's companion count as a paladin's special mount for the purpose of spells? I had Golden Barding on my list originally, but then took it off because I didn't think it would work for them; they don't have Heal Mount on their list, and I would've thought that would be an obvious choice if it worked. If you wanted to specify that the mount-specific spells affect the companion, then adding Heal Mount from the PH might be a thought.
cycloptic_squirrel 02-11-07, 11:33 AM	Does a healer's companion count as a paladin's special mount for the purpose of spells? I had Golden Barding on my list originally, but then took it off because I didn't think it would work for them; they don't have Heal Mount on their list, and I would've thought that would be an obvious choice if it worked. If you wanted to specify that the mount-specific spells affect the companion, then adding Heal Mount from the PH might be a thought. Strictly RAW, I don't think the companion would count, but the rules are similar enough that I don't think it'd be a stretch to stipulate that healer companions count as a special mount.* The special mount spells were very much in line with what I think a healer should be able to do. I see the spells as enhancing and emphasizing the special bond. I didn't think the spells had a high chance of being added, but mentioned them in the off chance the circle agreed with me. *This reminds me, under the animal companion section, change the appropriate heading to "Paladin Mounts and Healer Companions", unless the above suggestion of equating them is taken.