Familiar Hit Points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Familiar Hit Points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
soonerpat
02-25-07, 03:04 PM The PHB is pretty clear that your familiar has 1/2 of your hitpoints.

Recently I played an adventure with a wizard that granted the familiar a +2 bump to Con.

Does this affect the HP of the familiar (+1 HP/level)?

thanks - pat
Cardinal Teplin
02-25-07, 03:32 PM To add to the first question - what happens if the wizard gets a con boost instead?
kjenks
02-25-07, 03:38 PM As far as I can tell, increasing the familiar's Con doesn't affect a familiar's HP. But increasing the master's Con does, in a way, because the familiar's HP are half of the master's HP.

I was thrilled to get that Con increase for my annoying gnome's horned lizard familiar because it means an increase in the DC of its Blood Spurt ability.
solbergb
02-25-07, 04:04 PM +2 con just ups the familiar fort save, which might be nice if you get nailed with a horrid wilting down the line.

Aside from oddball things like Ken's blood spit power, that's all it will do. Familiar hp are 100% based on whatever the master's current unwounded hitpoint total is.
gomeztoo
02-25-07, 04:06 PM I am unsure though if things like rage affect a familiar's hp.
soonerpat
02-25-07, 05:32 PM Cool.

Thanks everyone. That's pretty much what I expected.

Wish I had taken the Toad now.
haferka
02-25-07, 05:34 PM +2 con just ups the familiar fort save, which might be nice if you get nailed with a horrid wilting down the line.

Aside from oddball things like Ken's blood spit power, that's all it will do. Familiar hp are 100% based on whatever the master's current unwounded hitpoint total is.

I'm pretty sure the familiar has hp=half current unwounded hp total... UNLESS the familiars normal hp would be more...

... lets say your mage takes alot of con damage... the familiars normal hp might potentially be MORE than the masters current maximum hp.
kjenks
02-25-07, 08:55 PM +2 con just ups the familiar fort save, which might be nice if you get nailed with a horrid wilting down the line.

Aside from oddball things like Ken's blood spit power, that's all it will do. Familiar hp are 100% based on whatever the master's current unwounded hitpoint total is.

Having a Constitution-based save DC isn't that odd; any wizard or sorcerer can have a tiny viper familiar. (Only those of us lucky enough to be Bright Lands characters can have a horned lizard. The few. The proud. The sandy.)
MatteBlack
02-25-07, 11:17 PM Shouldn't the wizard and familiar be able to share the con bump which would increase the familiar's hp?
Maesto
02-26-07, 03:49 AM No, not from temporary bonuses. A periapt of health (on the wizard) is usually considered to increase familiar hp.

Note that even if a familiar would normally have more hp than half the wizard's hp, they don't get that many hp, unless the wizard has a feat which allows it to be done. For example, the draconic familiar feat, and perhaps the improved familiar feat (although I'm not sure on that one).

Cheers,

Jolyon
Mortepierre
02-26-07, 04:08 AM Wish I had taken the Toad now.

Doesn't Retraining allow you to switch familiar?
haferka
02-26-07, 07:50 AM Doesn't Retraining allow you to switch familiar?

I believe you can just spend the $ to summon a new familiar... (no retraining necessary)
gomeztoo
02-26-07, 08:31 AM Yes, but you need to wait 53 TU...
soonerpat
02-26-07, 12:37 PM Changing out the familiar is a retraining option. No TU's lost for that method, just GP.
cycloptic_squirrel
02-27-07, 04:30 AM Changing out the familiar is a retraining option. No TU's lost for that method, just GP.

Well, except for the 4 TUs that all retraining costs. I'd probably still do it if I lost a familiar (whcih won't be long if I keep having it aid my attacks :P ).
catsclaw
02-27-07, 12:33 PM Well, except for the 4 TUs that all retraining costs. I'd probably still do it if I lost a familiar (whcih won't be long if I keep having it aid my attacks :P ).I'm pretty sure that won't work. You can retrain for a new familiar, but you'd go from having a dead cat familiar to a dead raven familiar -- and still have to wait 53 TU's for the new one to show up.
Britt
02-27-07, 12:37 PM "When a familiar dies, the master immediately loses XP, per the rules in the PH. If a familiar is dismissed or dies and is not raised, the master must wait 53 TUs before summoning another."

There are no rules in that clause or the Retraining rules that allow you to avoid this penalty.
ranagrande
02-27-07, 02:40 PM What happens when a familiar is neither dead nor dismissed? As a class feature, can it be retrained?
Britt
02-27-07, 02:43 PM It is a class feature that can be retrained. If it doesn't die and is not dismissed, the other text in the LGCS is not triggered and you suffer no penalties, other than retraining costs.
KarmaInferno
02-27-07, 04:51 PM Why would anyone ever "dismiss" a familiar, then?

Unless it's some wierd roleplaying thing. "Get ye gone, foul vermin! I have had enough of your kind! Maybe in a year I'll feel differently, but for now, begone!"

;)

-karma
cycloptic_squirrel
02-28-07, 02:27 AM "When a familiar dies, the master immediately loses XP, per the rules in the PH. If a familiar is dismissed or dies and is not raised, the master must wait 53 TUs before summoning another."

There are no rules in that clause or the Retraining rules that allow you to avoid this penalty.

I stand corrected. I guess I was reading too much into it (again).

As for dismissing a familiar, I see two main reasons. Well, kinda the same reason. Get a better one. Option one, obtain different PHB familiar. Option two, grab improved familiar feat, obtain better familiar. This is if you won't/can't spring for the retrain.
Maesto
02-28-07, 02:28 AM Ah, but now you can just retrain to a better/different/improved one =)

J
JJeff
02-28-07, 02:55 AM So the conclusion is that you can retrain for a new familiar as long as you didn't dismiss it and it didn't die.

Right....
Rerednaw
02-28-07, 02:30 PM So the conclusion is that you can retrain for a new familiar as long as you didn't dismiss it and it didn't die.

Right....

Eh? Is this really the case?
katrick
03-14-07, 02:00 PM So the conclusion is that you can retrain for a new familiar as long as you didn't dismiss it and it didn't die.

Right....

if you dump your first level of Wiz and change to Sor or similar
katrick
kjenks
03-14-07, 02:59 PM But I thought you couldn't retrain away class levels.
Crazy Boro
03-14-07, 03:13 PM You can't. That would work if you did the rebuild option in the phb2, but LG isn't allowing rebuilds (besides the druid rebuild). Only the retraining option is allowed in LG.
Timlagor
03-14-07, 03:22 PM 1) you can't change class levels

2) You can change any class feature. Familiar choice is a class feature and can be retrained (so long as your familiar is alive and not dismissed at the time: note that familiars can be Raised).
solbergb
03-14-07, 03:26 PM It can only be retrained if you have something else to retrain TO.

Training away a familiar requires AR access, because there are no Open alternatives to the familiar for wizards or sorcerers in LG. Alternate class feature stuff needs to be opened by access first.

CHANGING the familiar doesn't require access, just the 4TU and cash cost. Much better deal than dismissing (XP cost and 52TU)
cycloptic_squirrel
03-14-07, 07:37 PM CHANGING the familiar doesn't require access, just the 4TU and cash cost. Much better deal than dismissing (XP cost and 52TU)

Assuming that your new choice is the basic familiar. I hope I'm wrong here, but the only way to upgrade an existing familiar to an improved familiar is to dismiss, wait, and summon the improved one. Unless something wierd happened, like you already met the prereqs for the improved familiar when you summoned the original.
Timlagor
03-14-07, 09:24 PM I see no reason to disallow retraining an existing familiar to an Improved one. The degree of hair-splitting necessary to disallow it just doesn't seem worthwhile to me.
cycloptic_squirrel
03-14-07, 09:51 PM "The new option must represent a choice you could have made same level as you made the original choice." -Class feature retraining, PHB II

You couldn't have taken the improved familiar earlier (otherwise you probably would have), so you can't retrain into it now. At least that's how I see it. Unfortunetly. Allowing it does seem very in line with the retraining rules, but I can't argue with the above statement, given it's clarity.

The only out I could see would be to argue that 'none' is a choice of familiar one may retrian into (much like school specialization), so retrain into no famliar and then summon your improved famliar shortly thereafter. Thoughts?
Timlagor
03-15-07, 02:05 PM The only out I could see would be to argue that 'none' is a choice of familiar one may retrian into (much like school specialization), so retrain into no famliar and then summon your improved famliar shortly thereafter. Thoughts?

Works for me.
Jay_Ibero_911
03-15-07, 02:16 PM Assuming that your new choice is the basic familiar. I hope I'm wrong here, but the only way to upgrade an existing familiar to an improved familiar is to dismiss, wait, and summon the improved one. Unless something wierd happened, like you already met the prereqs for the improved familiar when you summoned the original.

The way I see it, Improved Familiar only expands the options available to select from with the Summon Familiar class feature, so if you have the improved familiar feat, but already have a standard familiar, you can, at level up, retrain that class feature to another option you have for that feature, which includes the expanded options provided by the improved familiar feat.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
soonerpat 02-25-07, 03:04 PM	The PHB is pretty clear that your familiar has 1/2 of your hitpoints. Recently I played an adventure with a wizard that granted the familiar a +2 bump to Con. Does this affect the HP of the familiar (+1 HP/level)? thanks - pat
Cardinal Teplin 02-25-07, 03:32 PM	To add to the first question - what happens if the wizard gets a con boost instead?
kjenks 02-25-07, 03:38 PM	As far as I can tell, increasing the familiar's Con doesn't affect a familiar's HP. But increasing the master's Con does, in a way, because the familiar's HP are half of the master's HP. I was thrilled to get that Con increase for my annoying gnome's horned lizard familiar because it means an increase in the DC of its Blood Spurt ability.
solbergb 02-25-07, 04:04 PM	+2 con just ups the familiar fort save, which might be nice if you get nailed with a horrid wilting down the line. Aside from oddball things like Ken's blood spit power, that's all it will do. Familiar hp are 100% based on whatever the master's current unwounded hitpoint total is.
gomeztoo 02-25-07, 04:06 PM	I am unsure though if things like rage affect a familiar's hp.
soonerpat 02-25-07, 05:32 PM	Cool. Thanks everyone. That's pretty much what I expected. Wish I had taken the Toad now.
haferka 02-25-07, 05:34 PM	+2 con just ups the familiar fort save, which might be nice if you get nailed with a horrid wilting down the line. Aside from oddball things like Ken's blood spit power, that's all it will do. Familiar hp are 100% based on whatever the master's current unwounded hitpoint total is. I'm pretty sure the familiar has hp=half current unwounded hp total... UNLESS the familiars normal hp would be more... ... lets say your mage takes alot of con damage... the familiars normal hp might potentially be MORE than the masters current maximum hp.
kjenks 02-25-07, 08:55 PM	+2 con just ups the familiar fort save, which might be nice if you get nailed with a horrid wilting down the line. Aside from oddball things like Ken's blood spit power, that's all it will do. Familiar hp are 100% based on whatever the master's current unwounded hitpoint total is. Having a Constitution-based save DC isn't that odd; any wizard or sorcerer can have a tiny viper familiar. (Only those of us lucky enough to be Bright Lands characters can have a horned lizard. The few. The proud. The sandy.)
MatteBlack 02-25-07, 11:17 PM	Shouldn't the wizard and familiar be able to share the con bump which would increase the familiar's hp?
Maesto 02-26-07, 03:49 AM	No, not from temporary bonuses. A periapt of health (on the wizard) is usually considered to increase familiar hp. Note that even if a familiar would normally have more hp than half the wizard's hp, they don't get that many hp, unless the wizard has a feat which allows it to be done. For example, the draconic familiar feat, and perhaps the improved familiar feat (although I'm not sure on that one). Cheers, Jolyon
Mortepierre 02-26-07, 04:08 AM	Wish I had taken the Toad now. Doesn't Retraining allow you to switch familiar?
haferka 02-26-07, 07:50 AM	Doesn't Retraining allow you to switch familiar? I believe you can just spend the $ to summon a new familiar... (no retraining necessary)
gomeztoo 02-26-07, 08:31 AM	Yes, but you need to wait 53 TU...
soonerpat 02-26-07, 12:37 PM	Changing out the familiar is a retraining option. No TU's lost for that method, just GP.
cycloptic_squirrel 02-27-07, 04:30 AM	Changing out the familiar is a retraining option. No TU's lost for that method, just GP. Well, except for the 4 TUs that all retraining costs. I'd probably still do it if I lost a familiar (whcih won't be long if I keep having it aid my attacks :P ).
catsclaw 02-27-07, 12:33 PM	Well, except for the 4 TUs that all retraining costs. I'd probably still do it if I lost a familiar (whcih won't be long if I keep having it aid my attacks :P ).I'm pretty sure that won't work. You can retrain for a new familiar, but you'd go from having a dead cat familiar to a dead raven familiar -- and still have to wait 53 TU's for the new one to show up.
Britt 02-27-07, 12:37 PM	"When a familiar dies, the master immediately loses XP, per the rules in the PH. If a familiar is dismissed or dies and is not raised, the master must wait 53 TUs before summoning another." There are no rules in that clause or the Retraining rules that allow you to avoid this penalty.
ranagrande 02-27-07, 02:40 PM	What happens when a familiar is neither dead nor dismissed? As a class feature, can it be retrained?
Britt 02-27-07, 02:43 PM	It is a class feature that can be retrained. If it doesn't die and is not dismissed, the other text in the LGCS is not triggered and you suffer no penalties, other than retraining costs.
KarmaInferno 02-27-07, 04:51 PM	Why would anyone ever "dismiss" a familiar, then? Unless it's some wierd roleplaying thing. "Get ye gone, foul vermin! I have had enough of your kind! Maybe in a year I'll feel differently, but for now, begone!" ;) -karma
cycloptic_squirrel 02-28-07, 02:27 AM	"When a familiar dies, the master immediately loses XP, per the rules in the PH. If a familiar is dismissed or dies and is not raised, the master must wait 53 TUs before summoning another." There are no rules in that clause or the Retraining rules that allow you to avoid this penalty. I stand corrected. I guess I was reading too much into it (again). As for dismissing a familiar, I see two main reasons. Well, kinda the same reason. Get a better one. Option one, obtain different PHB familiar. Option two, grab improved familiar feat, obtain better familiar. This is if you won't/can't spring for the retrain.
Maesto 02-28-07, 02:28 AM	Ah, but now you can just retrain to a better/different/improved one =) J
JJeff 02-28-07, 02:55 AM	So the conclusion is that you can retrain for a new familiar as long as you didn't dismiss it and it didn't die. Right....
Rerednaw 02-28-07, 02:30 PM	So the conclusion is that you can retrain for a new familiar as long as you didn't dismiss it and it didn't die. Right.... Eh? Is this really the case?
katrick 03-14-07, 02:00 PM	So the conclusion is that you can retrain for a new familiar as long as you didn't dismiss it and it didn't die. Right.... if you dump your first level of Wiz and change to Sor or similar katrick
kjenks 03-14-07, 02:59 PM	But I thought you couldn't retrain away class levels.
Crazy Boro 03-14-07, 03:13 PM	You can't. That would work if you did the rebuild option in the phb2, but LG isn't allowing rebuilds (besides the druid rebuild). Only the retraining option is allowed in LG.
Timlagor 03-14-07, 03:22 PM	1) you can't change class levels 2) You can change any class feature. Familiar choice is a class feature and can be retrained (so long as your familiar is alive and not dismissed at the time: note that familiars can be Raised).
solbergb 03-14-07, 03:26 PM	It can only be retrained if you have something else to retrain TO. Training away a familiar requires AR access, because there are no Open alternatives to the familiar for wizards or sorcerers in LG. Alternate class feature stuff needs to be opened by access first. CHANGING the familiar doesn't require access, just the 4TU and cash cost. Much better deal than dismissing (XP cost and 52TU)
cycloptic_squirrel 03-14-07, 07:37 PM	CHANGING the familiar doesn't require access, just the 4TU and cash cost. Much better deal than dismissing (XP cost and 52TU) Assuming that your new choice is the basic familiar. I hope I'm wrong here, but the only way to upgrade an existing familiar to an improved familiar is to dismiss, wait, and summon the improved one. Unless something wierd happened, like you already met the prereqs for the improved familiar when you summoned the original.
Timlagor 03-14-07, 09:24 PM	I see no reason to disallow retraining an existing familiar to an Improved one. The degree of hair-splitting necessary to disallow it just doesn't seem worthwhile to me.
cycloptic_squirrel 03-14-07, 09:51 PM	"The new option must represent a choice you could have made same level as you made the original choice." -Class feature retraining, PHB II You couldn't have taken the improved familiar earlier (otherwise you probably would have), so you can't retrain into it now. At least that's how I see it. Unfortunetly. Allowing it does seem very in line with the retraining rules, but I can't argue with the above statement, given it's clarity. The only out I could see would be to argue that 'none' is a choice of familiar one may retrian into (much like school specialization), so retrain into no famliar and then summon your improved famliar shortly thereafter. Thoughts?
Timlagor 03-15-07, 02:05 PM	The only out I could see would be to argue that 'none' is a choice of familiar one may retrian into (much like school specialization), so retrain into no famliar and then summon your improved famliar shortly thereafter. Thoughts? Works for me.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-15-07, 02:16 PM	Assuming that your new choice is the basic familiar. I hope I'm wrong here, but the only way to upgrade an existing familiar to an improved familiar is to dismiss, wait, and summon the improved one. Unless something wierd happened, like you already met the prereqs for the improved familiar when you summoned the original. The way I see it, Improved Familiar only expands the options available to select from with the Summon Familiar class feature, so if you have the improved familiar feat, but already have a standard familiar, you can, at level up, retrain that class feature to another option you have for that feature, which includes the expanded options provided by the improved familiar feat.