Feat Pre-requisites fro PRC's [Archive] - Wizards Community

Feat Pre-requisites fro PRC's [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
clannagh
12-11-06, 01:45 AM The rules are pretty clear that class dependant pre-requisites like BAB, Caster Levels, Ranks in skills need to be met the level before you take your prestige class.

But what about Feats that you take at levels 6, 9 etc.

Because you get these extra feats regardless of the class taken can you choose a feat first and then use that feat to choose a PrC that needs it.

For example ... if I choose at level 6 a Feat that qualifies me for a PRC as my bonus level 6 Feat does that then allow me to take a PRC that needs that Feat or do I have to wait till level 7 ????
Britt
12-11-06, 02:01 AM PH p58-59.
clannagh
12-11-06, 02:19 AM PH p58-59.

Ok .. I have read that .. I suppose what I am really trying to clarify is whether the numbered order those events are shown in is the actual order the level up occurs in or the number are just for convenience.

If, as your reply infers, the events occur in the numbered order then clearly class choice comes first and thus all pre-requisites must be met on the level before.

This has some interesting side effects for example you could use the level 3/6/9 feat as a pre-requisite for a bonus class based feat like the even level fighter feats but not the other way around.
Britt
12-11-06, 02:38 AM Yes, sorry for the brevity; that is the order in which you level-up.
solbergb
12-11-06, 01:01 PM Yes they included that section explicitly to answer this kind of thing. The order in the PHB is not a guideline, it is how you must do it.

Feat and PRC qualification is heavily influenced by the order of operations, as is your hitpoint total and a few other things (eg whether you get spells known if you have "0" on the spell list as a spont caster)
chesspiece
12-14-06, 10:51 AM Generally, I haven't heard PHB58-59 referenced except for Prestige Classes. I believe that in 3.0 the order was mandatory. The answer to the OP's question is clear - he must wait until level 7.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/prestigeClasses.htm
"Unlike the basic classes, characters must meet Requirements before they can take their first level of a prestige class. The rules for level advancement apply to this system, meaning the first step of advancement is always choosing a class. If a character does not meet the Requirements for a prestige class before that first step, that character cannot take the first level of that prestige class."

Note that PHB58-59 is circumvented when selecting Feats. "A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite." This allows casters to take CWI at 3rd even though they select the Feat (step 7) before they advance in spellcasting (step 8). This allows a Monk2 / Pal1 to select Ascetic Knight before they gain their class features (step 9).

Although not explicit, this does not allow a PC to use a feat as it's own pre-req. i.e. Twin Spell "Prerequisite: Any metamagic feat"

BTW, the PRC Prereq question I'd love to see an official ruling on is whether loss of Prereq's takes away class features. The DMG and half the Complete books said nothing. The other half of the complete books (and DMG 3.0) say the class features are lost. So currently in LG - the rule only applies if the restricitive complete books (Warrior & Divine IIRC) are at the table?!? :confused:
[fingers crossed for clarification in the next LGCS]

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
clannagh 12-11-06, 01:45 AM	The rules are pretty clear that class dependant pre-requisites like BAB, Caster Levels, Ranks in skills need to be met the level before you take your prestige class. But what about Feats that you take at levels 6, 9 etc. Because you get these extra feats regardless of the class taken can you choose a feat first and then use that feat to choose a PrC that needs it. For example ... if I choose at level 6 a Feat that qualifies me for a PRC as my bonus level 6 Feat does that then allow me to take a PRC that needs that Feat or do I have to wait till level 7 ????
Britt 12-11-06, 02:01 AM	PH p58-59.
clannagh 12-11-06, 02:19 AM	PH p58-59. Ok .. I have read that .. I suppose what I am really trying to clarify is whether the numbered order those events are shown in is the actual order the level up occurs in or the number are just for convenience. If, as your reply infers, the events occur in the numbered order then clearly class choice comes first and thus all pre-requisites must be met on the level before. This has some interesting side effects for example you could use the level 3/6/9 feat as a pre-requisite for a bonus class based feat like the even level fighter feats but not the other way around.
Britt 12-11-06, 02:38 AM	Yes, sorry for the brevity; that is the order in which you level-up.
solbergb 12-11-06, 01:01 PM	Yes they included that section explicitly to answer this kind of thing. The order in the PHB is not a guideline, it is how you must do it. Feat and PRC qualification is heavily influenced by the order of operations, as is your hitpoint total and a few other things (eg whether you get spells known if you have "0" on the spell list as a spont caster)
chesspiece 12-14-06, 10:51 AM	Generally, I haven't heard PHB58-59 referenced except for Prestige Classes. I believe that in 3.0 the order was mandatory. The answer to the OP's question is clear - he must wait until level 7. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/prestigeClasses.htm "Unlike the basic classes, characters must meet Requirements before they can take their first level of a prestige class. The rules for level advancement apply to this system, meaning the first step of advancement is always choosing a class. If a character does not meet the Requirements for a prestige class before that first step, that character cannot take the first level of that prestige class." Note that PHB58-59 is circumvented when selecting Feats. "A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite." This allows casters to take CWI at 3rd even though they select the Feat (step 7) before they advance in spellcasting (step 8). This allows a Monk2 / Pal1 to select Ascetic Knight before they gain their class features (step 9). Although not explicit, this does not allow a PC to use a feat as it's own pre-req. i.e. Twin Spell "Prerequisite: Any metamagic feat" BTW, the PRC Prereq question I'd love to see an official ruling on is whether loss of Prereq's takes away class features. The DMG and half the Complete books said nothing. The other half of the complete books (and DMG 3.0) say the class features are lost. So currently in LG - the rule only applies if the restricitive complete books (Warrior & Divine IIRC) are at the table?!? :confused: [fingers crossed for clarification in the next LGCS]