Fog and Web [Archive] - Wizards Community

Fog and Web [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Vanadium
07-30-07, 08:51 PM Okay, I've got a few questions about some Battlefield Control Spells I should be using fairly quickly, and trying to see if I have things right.

Solid Fog

The spell says speed is reduced to 5 feet, and someone recently told me that they could simply double move for a maximum of 10 feet per round. However, moving through fog is supposed to cost double movement, so what happens?

Basically, with the blinding effect of fogs, are we in a situation where your movement speed is reduced to less than 5 feet, so you need to spend a full-round action to move 5 feet?

Also, I wonder how Web interacts with effects that reduce speed.

Assuming that we're in a situation where we can move in the web, what happens if some ongoing effect that halves speed is also present in the area? Obviously it limits the maximum movement, but does it do anything more?

Essentially, I was wondering what happens to that DC needed to move. Would the halving of the speed inflate this? As in, to move a whole five feet, would the check need to be passed by 10?

Should I expect extensive table variation in either case?
Timlagor
07-30-07, 10:01 PM Solid Fog text should be presumed to include the halving effect of not being able to see.

I would say that the halving effect only kicks in if your Strength/EA check is high enough to move that far.

I wouldn't expect table variation but you should be willing to accept it ..though if you're casting the spells any variation from my interpretation will be helping you anyway.
Vanadium
07-31-07, 07:38 PM Solid Fog text shoudl be presumed to include the halving effect of not being able to see.

I'm not sure if I fully understand what you mean. I think you mean the five foot speed is already factoring in the blindness caused by the fog, correct?

If that's the case, this would make sense, except for the fact that what happens if the creature is capable of seeing (blindsight, for example)? Well, they should still have their speed reduced to five feet (or at least I have doubts that anyone would rule otherwise). Is this something that should just be ignored?

Then again, the spell is 'good enough' as is, and their are plenty of effects out there that halve speed. Seeing as its mostly used for breaking up groups and whatnot, it'll still do that even if the enemy is in it half as long.
solbergb
07-31-07, 07:40 PM Normal fog halves movement for visibility reasons.

Solid fog reduces your movement speed to 5, as a composite of the spell (blind creatures also move 5). You go 10' in two moves, unless something else also slows you down (balance checks for freezing fog, some jerk cast an evards tentacles, etc)

I think halving the movement again for visibilty is a bit much and not indicated by the spell. It's plenty powerful just as it is. When you're reduced to 5', you're already moving slow enough that you can pick your footing carefully even if you have trouble seeing the ground.
Timlagor
08-01-07, 07:59 AM I think my position is that
- Visibility limits you to half speed.
- Solid Fog limists you to 5' speed by obstruction.
* These are two seperate effects that overlap.
mregecko
08-02-07, 10:53 AM One thing that I've had HUGE table variation over regarding Solid Fog is how it affects > Medium creatures.

Basically, if some percentage of a > Medium creature is only partially in the solid fog, are they still limited in vision, mobility, etc?

I've always interpreted it as a clinging, thick mist that impedes your movement... Think walking through water. So if a Giant still has half of his body stuck in it, wouldn't this still impede him?

Is there any official ruling on this?
bitznarf
08-02-07, 10:56 AM Yes it would. Take a look at the rules surrounding difficult terrain and large creatures. While any square of a creature is moving into difficult terrain the creature is hampered as a whole. I don't have rules quotes ready off hand but I can find them if you want.
Madfox11
08-02-07, 11:07 AM If I remember correctly, ultimately it does not matter what comes first, there is rule that states that regardless of how many movement penelties you got (unless specifically reduced to 0) you can always move 5 ft. as a move action.

What I do find odd though is people treating fog as if being blind. Fog gives normal concealment (20% miss chance) to those adjacent to a creature, hence it is not total darkness. My conclusion from that is that mist does NOT half movement.
solbergb
08-02-07, 12:26 PM Madfox...you can always move 5' as a FULL ROUND action.

It does actually matter how it's ruled, because if people just use the spell description, you can move 10' in a round, and if you tack on visibility penalties (assuming that's not subsumed in the spell) then you can only move 5' in a round.

Fog is one of the examples given in PHB for the "hampered visibility" movement penalties. As is ordinary night darkness (for those without lowlight or darkvision). That's why it is an issue.

With respect to larger creatures, they're hampered if even one square is entering a solid fog square as part of their movement. Which is what makes solid fog sovereign against the really big creatures, better than just about any other kind of battlefield control. Most big creatures brush aside most other battlefield control spells (some can step over walls of force, have massive saves because of gobs of hitdice, breeze through strength checks, laugh at grapple checks, etc) It is also effective against fliers, unlike most other forms.
Timlagor
02-17-08, 03:35 PM Fog is one of the examples given in PHB for the "hampered visibility" movement penalties. As is ordinary night darkness (for those without lowlight or darkvision). That's why it is an issue.

Can you tell me (precisely) where to find this reference?
copperwyrmling
02-17-08, 04:30 PM Can you tell me (precisely) where to find this reference?

Table 9-4, p.163 PHB, is the first reference I found (there might be others):

Condition: Poor Visibility
Example: Darkness or fog
Additional movement cost: x2
Timlagor
02-17-08, 05:10 PM Thanks

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vanadium 07-30-07, 08:51 PM	Okay, I've got a few questions about some Battlefield Control Spells I should be using fairly quickly, and trying to see if I have things right. Solid Fog The spell says speed is reduced to 5 feet, and someone recently told me that they could simply double move for a maximum of 10 feet per round. However, moving through fog is supposed to cost double movement, so what happens? Basically, with the blinding effect of fogs, are we in a situation where your movement speed is reduced to less than 5 feet, so you need to spend a full-round action to move 5 feet? Also, I wonder how Web interacts with effects that reduce speed. Assuming that we're in a situation where we can move in the web, what happens if some ongoing effect that halves speed is also present in the area? Obviously it limits the maximum movement, but does it do anything more? Essentially, I was wondering what happens to that DC needed to move. Would the halving of the speed inflate this? As in, to move a whole five feet, would the check need to be passed by 10? Should I expect extensive table variation in either case?
Timlagor 07-30-07, 10:01 PM	Solid Fog text should be presumed to include the halving effect of not being able to see. I would say that the halving effect only kicks in if your Strength/EA check is high enough to move that far. I wouldn't expect table variation but you should be willing to accept it ..though if you're casting the spells any variation from my interpretation will be helping you anyway.
Vanadium 07-31-07, 07:38 PM	Solid Fog text shoudl be presumed to include the halving effect of not being able to see. I'm not sure if I fully understand what you mean. I think you mean the five foot speed is already factoring in the blindness caused by the fog, correct? If that's the case, this would make sense, except for the fact that what happens if the creature is capable of seeing (blindsight, for example)? Well, they should still have their speed reduced to five feet (or at least I have doubts that anyone would rule otherwise). Is this something that should just be ignored? Then again, the spell is 'good enough' as is, and their are plenty of effects out there that halve speed. Seeing as its mostly used for breaking up groups and whatnot, it'll still do that even if the enemy is in it half as long.
solbergb 07-31-07, 07:40 PM	Normal fog halves movement for visibility reasons. Solid fog reduces your movement speed to 5, as a composite of the spell (blind creatures also move 5). You go 10' in two moves, unless something else also slows you down (balance checks for freezing fog, some jerk cast an evards tentacles, etc) I think halving the movement again for visibilty is a bit much and not indicated by the spell. It's plenty powerful just as it is. When you're reduced to 5', you're already moving slow enough that you can pick your footing carefully even if you have trouble seeing the ground.
Timlagor 08-01-07, 07:59 AM	I think my position is that - Visibility limits you to half speed. - Solid Fog limists you to 5' speed by obstruction. * These are two seperate effects that overlap.
mregecko 08-02-07, 10:53 AM	One thing that I've had HUGE table variation over regarding Solid Fog is how it affects > Medium creatures. Basically, if some percentage of a > Medium creature is only partially in the solid fog, are they still limited in vision, mobility, etc? I've always interpreted it as a clinging, thick mist that impedes your movement... Think walking through water. So if a Giant still has half of his body stuck in it, wouldn't this still impede him? Is there any official ruling on this?
bitznarf 08-02-07, 10:56 AM	Yes it would. Take a look at the rules surrounding difficult terrain and large creatures. While any square of a creature is moving into difficult terrain the creature is hampered as a whole. I don't have rules quotes ready off hand but I can find them if you want.
Madfox11 08-02-07, 11:07 AM	If I remember correctly, ultimately it does not matter what comes first, there is rule that states that regardless of how many movement penelties you got (unless specifically reduced to 0) you can always move 5 ft. as a move action. What I do find odd though is people treating fog as if being blind. Fog gives normal concealment (20% miss chance) to those adjacent to a creature, hence it is not total darkness. My conclusion from that is that mist does NOT half movement.
solbergb 08-02-07, 12:26 PM	Madfox...you can always move 5' as a FULL ROUND action. It does actually matter how it's ruled, because if people just use the spell description, you can move 10' in a round, and if you tack on visibility penalties (assuming that's not subsumed in the spell) then you can only move 5' in a round. Fog is one of the examples given in PHB for the "hampered visibility" movement penalties. As is ordinary night darkness (for those without lowlight or darkvision). That's why it is an issue. With respect to larger creatures, they're hampered if even one square is entering a solid fog square as part of their movement. Which is what makes solid fog sovereign against the really big creatures, better than just about any other kind of battlefield control. Most big creatures brush aside most other battlefield control spells (some can step over walls of force, have massive saves because of gobs of hitdice, breeze through strength checks, laugh at grapple checks, etc) It is also effective against fliers, unlike most other forms.
Timlagor 02-17-08, 03:35 PM	Fog is one of the examples given in PHB for the "hampered visibility" movement penalties. As is ordinary night darkness (for those without lowlight or darkvision). That's why it is an issue. Can you tell me (precisely) where to find this reference?
copperwyrmling 02-17-08, 04:30 PM	Can you tell me (precisely) where to find this reference? Table 9-4, p.163 PHB, is the first reference I found (there might be others): Condition: Poor Visibility Example: Darkness or fog Additional movement cost: x2
Timlagor 02-17-08, 05:10 PM	Thanks