Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mattastrophic 11-06-07, 12:34 PM	What are Bracelets of Friends capable of doing in Living Greyhawk? "Bracelet of Friends: This silver charm bracelet has four charms upon it when created. The owner may designate one person known to him to be keyed to one charm. (This designation takes a standard action, but once done it lasts forever or until changed.) When a charm is grasped and the name of the keyed individual is spoken, that person is called to the spot (a standard action) along with his or her gear, as long as the owner and the called person are on the same plane. The keyed individual knows who is calling, and the bracelet of friends only functions on willing travelers. Once a charm is activated, it disappears. Charms separated from the bracelet are worthless. A bracelet found with fewer than four charms is worth 25% less for each missing charm." -Matt
magebeast 11-06-07, 01:09 PM	What are Bracelets of Friends capable of doing in Living Greyhawk? Breaking a mod that intentionally seperates the party, sounds like.
Hariman 11-06-07, 07:29 PM	Magebeast has one use, although the limit is the fact that it can only summon 4 friends. It's a situational item. You could, at the beginning of each adventure, designate certain party members as the friends. You can then call that party member to your side if needed. It's a great way to use a fast character to get to the other side of the group of enemies, then summon the tank to beat down the back rank of enemies. Or you could call a character away from danger if needed. Like a caster getting surprised and grappled by a grapple type monster. But it looks like it's a 4 use item. So it's only going to be so useful. Still, saving a party member can be huge. That's what I'd use it for.
Madfox11 11-07-07, 07:43 AM	As with any item in LG it is considered to be unattuned at the start of an adventure. During the adventure you can attune people to it which in theory could be NPCs you meet during the adventure, although it is unlikely they will accept unless the adventure already dealt with their potential as an ally. The most likely subjects are your fellow adventurers as others have said. Pieter Sleijpen RPGA Living Greyhawk Circle Member The Splintered Suns
KarmaInferno 11-07-07, 09:16 AM	Depending on your DM's interpretation of what a "person" constitutes, and how much intelligence you need to accept the summons, you could use it to get around those oh-so-annoying adventure plot devices that tend to make you leave mounts, animal companions, or even Large party members behind. -karma
GeorgeFHarris 11-07-07, 11:41 AM	As with any item in LG it is considered to be unattuned at the start of an adventure. During the adventure you can attune people to it which in theory could be NPCs you meet during the adventure, although it is unlikely they will accept unless the adventure already dealt with their potential as an ally. The most likely subjects are your fellow adventurers as others have said. Pieter Sleijpen RPGA Living Greyhawk Circle Member The Splintered Suns So, it's really being used like the spell, Regroup. GH
Madfox11 11-08-07, 04:00 AM	I wouldn't know. I have not seen it in use. I never said the item was terribly useful in LG.
JamesMaissen 11-08-07, 04:40 PM	I wouldn't know. I have not seen it in use. I never said the item was terribly useful in LG. The best use for them would be if you had a favor that had them keyed to specific NPCs. At basically the cost of a raise dead spell, it should do something... -James
Madfox11 11-09-07, 06:53 AM	The best use for them would be if you had a favor that had them keyed to specific NPCs. At basically the cost of a raise dead spell, it should do something... -James Why? Nobody is forcing the players to buy the items, and the fact is that some items are simply suited to convention play.
JamesMaissen 11-11-07, 06:06 PM	Why? Nobody is forcing the players to buy the items, and the fact is that some items are simply suited to convention play. Because currently the item is useless, and with something like this then it wouldn't be? -James
Madfox11 11-14-07, 04:27 AM	There was a "not" missing in the last sentence. There are certain limitation to a worldwide campaign that are not present in a home campaign, so some items are simply not useful without a lot of work. These bracelets are one of those items. A triad could probably add a favor to an AR that allow the bracelet to be used on NPCs not in the adventure although it will take up a lot of space to make it balanced and reasonable.
Mattastrophic 11-14-07, 09:25 AM	On the other hand, what, specifically, is preventing someone from: -Calling in a 7th PC? -Calling a cohort into a six-person table? -Calling in a PC who has already played the module? -Calling in a person's second PC? -Calling an out-of-region PC into a regional module via teleconference? -Calling in a PC who is four or more levels above the chosen APL? -Calling a non-attending player's PC into a convention table via teleconference? -Calling in a PC after the APL has been calculated, so the called-in PC doesn't lower the APL and prevent other PCs from participating? -In all these cases, what if the called PC/cohort were marked as an NPC technically under the control of the DM? I think I can answer a few of these questions myself; I'm wondering if some of my interpretations are off or I've missed something. -Matt
Jay_Ibero_911 11-14-07, 02:03 PM	On the other hand, what, specifically, is preventing someone from: -Calling in a 7th PC? -Calling a cohort into a six-person table? -Calling in a PC who has already played the module? -Calling in a person's second PC? -Calling an out-of-region PC into a regional module via teleconference? -Calling in a PC who is four or more levels above the chosen APL? -Calling a non-attending player's PC into a convention table via teleconference? -Calling in a PC after the APL has been calculated, so the called-in PC doesn't lower the APL and prevent other PCs from participating? -In all these cases, what if the called PC/cohort were marked as an NPC technically under the control of the DM? I think I can answer a few of these questions myself; I'm wondering if some of my interpretations are off or I've missed something. -Matt Well obviously if the player of the PC to be called is unavailable, then the PC cannot be called as no one may play a PC except the owner of the PC. And unless specifically changed by a favor, the bracelet would probably fall into the same grouping as spell storing type items, in that they come into all adventures blank, so you would only be able to attune the bracelet to characters encountered in the mod.
WolfStar76 11-14-07, 02:49 PM	On the other hand, what, specifically, is preventing someone from: -Calling in a 7th PC? -Calling a cohort into a six-person table? -Calling in a PC who has already played the module? -Calling in a person's second PC? -Calling an out-of-region PC into a regional module via teleconference? -Calling in a PC who is four or more levels above the chosen APL? -Calling a non-attending player's PC into a convention table via teleconference? -Calling in a PC after the APL has been calculated, so the called-in PC doesn't lower the APL and prevent other PCs from participating? -In all these cases, what if the called PC/cohort were marked as an NPC technically under the control of the DM? I think I can answer a few of these questions myself; I'm wondering if some of my interpretations are off or I've missed something. -Matt As with any item in LG it is considered to be unattuned at the start of an adventure. During the adventure you can attune people to it Hope that helps. (The above quote also goes on to explain that if you attune a charm to an NPC, it's still up tot he NPC if they're willing to be called or not - so the DM can make that call as needed)
Mattastrophic 11-14-07, 07:37 PM	Hope that helps. Actually, it doesn't: "The owner may designate one person known to him to be keyed to one charm. (This designation takes a standard action, but once done it lasts forever or until changed.)" So no, one is not limited to people encountered within a module. -Matt
Howie23 11-14-07, 08:42 PM	Actually, it doesn't: "The owner may designate one person known to him to be keyed to one charm. (This designation takes a standard action, but once done it lasts forever or until changed.)" So no, one is not limited to people encountered within a module. You are quoting the item's general description, I assume. The statement that it starts the adventure without being attuned was made by a member of Circle in explaining how the item is accomodated within the special circumstances of the LG campaign. Circle's statement trumps the item's description. It might take it being in a Dispel Confusion to make it bullet proof for everyone (I don't recall the current standard), but the question seems to have been answered in a manner that is consistent with the basic rules of the campaign.
magebeast 11-14-07, 08:43 PM	Actually, it doesn't: "The owner may designate one person known to him to be keyed to one charm. (This designation takes a standard action, but once done it lasts forever or until changed.)" So no, one is not limited to people encountered within a module. -Matt ...the charged thing is something specific to LG. Nothing in the writing in a ring of counterspells suggests that it has to be charged at the beginning of every module.
Mattastrophic 11-14-07, 08:57 PM	Howie23, you are quite correct that the Bracelet begins each module unattuned, but you're entirely missing my point. Let me use an example: -Module begins. Boxtext is read. -Player A would like to bring in PC B. -Player A takes a standard action to attune a charm to PC B. -Player A activates the Bracelet. -Matt
Howie23 11-14-07, 09:36 PM	Howie23, you are quite correct that the Bracelet begins each module unattuned, but you're entirely missing my point. Let me use an example: -Module begins. Boxtext is read. -Player A would like to bring in PC B. -Player A takes a standard action to attune a charm to PC B. -Player A activates the Bracelet. How did PC B get to the table? He's either one of the 4-6 that start the table or he isn't there to be attuned. There is no option for him to be an NPC who just happens to be there. There is no option for him to be a PC who isn't one of the 4-6 who just happens to be there. The parameters of which PCs are there are determined prior to any point that the attunation could take place.
MwaO 11-15-07, 12:00 AM	I think the example is pretending that PC B's existance is solely dependent on whether or not he's in that mod or not. He may very well be going through another mod somewhere else at the exact same time. He may be resolving various off-camera life issues that mean he won't respond to the call. He may not be prepared for the summons with all his gear in tow. Finally, just because someone summons you with this thing, you don't really know what situation you're bopping into. If you're an evil high-level BBEG, you realize these things cost only about 5K a pop, and these people all know people with significantly more wealth than that...doesn't it make sense to charm a mid-level adventurer and have him summon up his friends?
Mattastrophic 11-15-07, 02:31 AM	Howie: If you look at the rules for the Bracelet, PC B only has to be "known" to PC A. One doesn't have to be present or even at the table to be attuned to the bracelet. According to your interpretation, all PCs forget everyone they've ever met immediately after leaving their sight. MWaO: Where you've presented incharacter reasons someone may not answer the call, there are plenty of incharacter reasons someone would answer the call. That's why I'm looking for actual rules in response to my earlier questions. -Matt
Howie23 11-15-07, 03:28 AM	Howie: If you look at the rules for the Bracelet, PC B only has to be "known" to PC A. One doesn't have to be present or even at the table to be attuned to the bracelet. According to your interpretation, all PCs forget everyone they've ever met immediately after leaving their sight. Sorry, thought the target had to be present for attunation and appreciate the issue better now. Thanks for your patience. I'm clear on how I'd handle it as a DM, but will not be surprised to hear of folks doing things all sorts of things with this. FWIW, what seems clear to me in adjudicating it is that I would treat bringing in another PC in the same way that I would adding a player late, and it would still need to be a legal table. NPCs depend on the relationship with the calling PC.
Madfox11 11-15-07, 04:06 AM	Regardless of the items wording, you still cannot break some of the basic RPGA rulings such as that only 6 PCs plus cohorts can play on one table and no player can play the same adventure twice even with another PC. In short, summoning other PCs, especially secondary PCs of other players at the table, is not a good idea (battle interactives can be an exception). As for NPCs, unless a favor or adventure specifically says otherwise they would simply refuse to come. Besides the in campaign reason of refusing to help somebody (potential for a trap, busy with something else, no way of getting back home) there are also some very good game mechanical reasons why a DM should not bother with it: - The DM has no way to verify whether or not the named person really is a friend. - The DM has no way to know how a NPC would react to a request at that time. - The DM has no way to know the exact statistics of a NPC. So yes, the item is of a rather limited use in LG (and when you think about it it would also be rather limited in a home campaign), but the campaign management is not forcing anybody to buy the item so why should it go out of its way to make it more useful? Mind you, I have not seen access to the item, so how theoretical is this discussion? Pieter Sleijpen RPGA Circle Member The Splintered Suns
MwaO 11-15-07, 10:08 AM	MWaO: Where you've presented incharacter reasons someone may not answer the call, there are plenty of incharacter reasons someone would answer the call. That's why I'm looking for actual rules in response to my earlier questions. The RPGA rules limit you to a max of 6 players and characters. That's the actual rule and having started the adventure doesn't mean the rule then goes away. It may seem silly that you can't call a PC beyond that, but those are the rules. Also, I think you're using the cost and access as the excuse for the argument - if I pay 4750 a shot for an item I was intended to use(because I got access), shouldn't I get something back? But access to almost the exact same effect is Core and possibly nearly free for an APL 10+ party. Cast Sending, Scrying(if necessary), Teleport(to), Teleport(back) - most APL 10+ parties with a cleric and wizard should be able to pull this off pretty easily.
Redfist 11-15-07, 10:21 AM	Sure - you can call anyone in. However, your table's list of "PCs" is already set so what shows up is an NPC and thus under the strict control of the DM who then just has the NPC go away or possibly gets killed in boxed text. :D
Mattastrophic 11-15-07, 11:15 AM	Also, I think you're using the cost and access as the excuse for the argument - if I pay 4750 a shot for an item I was intended to use(because I got access), shouldn't I get something back? But access to almost the exact same effect is Core and possibly nearly free for an APL 10+ party. Cast Sending, Scrying(if necessary), Teleport(to), Teleport(back) - most APL 10+ parties with a cleric and wizard should be able to pull this off pretty easily. It started off as a discussion with a friend of mine regarding a underused item, and how the most "broken" effects in the game are in the PHB and DMG, the Bracelet of Friends included. Both of us have access to a Bracelet (and so does anyone who's played Tropical Intrigue, btw Madfox), and we started kicking around what it could actually do. One thing we both realized is that a problem with Living Greyhawk is that if your judge thinks what you're doing is "too strong," he'll act like Redfist and shut you down no matter what the rules say. Not only does table variation exist on ambiguous rules issues, but table variation, sadly, exists even on very clear-cut rules issues. For example, at my last convention, I had a judge swear up and down that I couldn't take a 5' step after standing up. I've had judges who absolutely refuse to let you take 10 or 20 when Searching for traps, judges who refuse to all multiple sneak attacks on a full-attack action, a judge who swore that my cohort wasn't allowed to have levels in a prestige class, and then there was the judge who imposed rules on character descriptions, informing us that if we didn't present our characters as wearing some sort of helmet, "he would take advantage of it." Let's hope that 4.0 and the leadership behind LFR does a better job of keeping things consistent. Though they certainly can't control bad judges, if the rules are kept consistent and holes are eliminated, the players and judges can be more informed. What are Bracelets of Friends capable of doing in Living Greyhawk? Unfortunately, the answer is "ask your judge." -Matt
JamesMaissen 11-15-07, 11:34 AM	The RPGA rules limit you to a max of 6 players and characters. That's the actual rule and having started the adventure doesn't mean the rule then goes away. Just to quibble. But doesn't the rule just limit the number of players? Not that it is currently allowed (and with the campaign ending a moot point) but there shouldn't be much wrong with a cohort being summoned into a module that the outside rules would otherwise prevent. Now for LG that would mean some kind of favor allowing it, I grant. But I don't think it would be against the RPGA rules (as I believe they only address players and not their character's cohorts). To Madfox there are a lot of DMG table access favors out there. Most blanket access favors were removed, but I guess that if there's a table then it's considered 'safe'. But that's going over to my utter disdain for using random treasure item tables for access. -James
MwaO 11-15-07, 11:50 AM	Just to quibble. But doesn't the rule just limit the number of players? Nope. You can't have 6 players playing 12 PCs. And you can't have a cohort participate unless there are 4-5 players and an open slot.
Mattastrophic 11-15-07, 02:37 PM	James was referring to the RPGA rules, not the LGCS. -Matt
MwaO 11-15-07, 03:02 PM	Yes. The RPGA rules. His or her character, not characters...the LGCS cohort rules are an exception to the RPGA rules.
gomeztoo 11-18-07, 03:37 PM	Mind you, I have not seen access to the item, so how theoretical is this discussion? Nesalia has access. Probably the one PC in LG crazy enough to buy one ;) (and blow it all in an interactive...).
Jay_Ibero_911 11-19-07, 03:27 PM	Nvm...I'm just blind...
Howie23 11-29-07, 06:44 PM	What are Bracelets of Friends capable of doing in Living Greyhawk? I was reviewing the DCs on another topic today and came across the following in http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgif/20070313a : *************** Q: Can I use a bracelet of friends to summon an NPC? A: No. You must have campaign documentation to be able to attune one of the charms to an NPC. *************** So, that's a definitive answer on the NPC part. David
rockondon 12-04-07, 08:18 PM	my cleric can cast teleport 1/day as a domain spell, but she can only bring 3 pc's along with her. If only there was some item that would allow her to essentially tele the entire party and their familiars/companions...;)
Arvagor 12-04-07, 08:23 PM	my cleric can cast teleport 1/day as a domain spell, but she can only bring 3 pc's along with her. If only there was some item that would allow her to essentially tele the entire party and their familiars/companions...;) Hook up with a wizard (or other caster) who can cast reduce person and take along twice as many ;)
JamesMaissen 12-05-07, 01:37 PM	my cleric can cast teleport 1/day as a domain spell, but she can only bring 3 pc's along with her. If only there was some item that would allow her to essentially tele the entire party and their familiars/companions...;) Portable Hole and (if you don't want to need to cast Raise dead..) a bottle of air (or a speedy cast and unfurling). -James
boolean 12-05-07, 09:23 PM	Hook up with a wizard (or other caster) who can cast reduce person and take along twice as many ;) Teleport (and Dimension Door etc.) says that larger creatures use up extra capacity, but it says nothing about being able to take multiple smaller creatures.
Arvagor 12-05-07, 10:14 PM	[delete]
bitznarf 12-06-07, 12:51 AM	Teleport (and Dimension Door etc.) says that larger creatures use up extra capacity, but it says nothing about being able to take multiple smaller creatures. Heh, sounds like MS Office and minimum file sizes to me.