Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ramacass 07-16-07, 07:12 AM	In the PHB it lists "tool, masterwork" in the tools and kits section of the PHB it is described as "this well made item is the perfect tool for the job. It grants a +2 circumstance bonus on a related skill check (if any) Some examples of this sort of item from on Table7-8 include master work artisan tools, masterwork thieves tools, disguise kit, climbers kit, healers kit, masterwork musical instument. This entry covers just about anything else. Bonuses provided by multiple masterwork items used toward the same skill do not stack so masterwork pitons and a climbers kit do not provide a +4 bonus if used together on a climb check" Now a player I play with takes this to mean that you can buy a masterwork tool for any skill. In his case he is using Masterwork Tool: Ride to get a +2 bonus on ride checks and is stacking it with Riding Straps from RS for an additional +1. I think this is streaching it a bit especially the stacking part. opinions
KarmaInferno 07-16-07, 07:25 AM	As written, the rules support a masterwork tool for any skill. Circumstance bonuses from different sources stack, so as long as the tool isn't also some sort of strapping system to keep the rider in the seat, it's legal. The Climb thing does NOT stack because both are considered "masterwork tools" and bonuses from the same source don't stack. The Riding Straps aren't a 'masterwork tool', because otherwise they'd be providing a +2, not a +1. Personally, I'd require the player to give me a damn good explanation of what the tool is and how the tool is helping the skill before I'd allow it. I have seen some pretty good justifications, though. Like herbal breath mints to help a Diplomacy check. Or a book on the appropriate subject for a Knowledge check (although in this case I ruled it took a couple of rounds to do it this way, as it takes time to look stuff up in a reference book). :D -jason
_metz_ 07-16-07, 07:37 AM	There are many views on this, and a lot of table variation. I suggest you read this thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=842189&highlight=masterwork+tools
Gwumph 07-16-07, 09:58 AM	I am the player in question. I was thinking the tool set would be a set of spurs, and a riding crop. But for my 2 cents, the LGCS says the PHB is open and rules support a masterwork tool for any skill.
MatteBlack 07-16-07, 11:07 AM	Masterworked Tools are definitely available by the LGCS but, DMs seem to have a fair amount of latitude on whether they allow the bonuses on a given skill roll. Some DMs may require actions to don, equip or apply the tools. Others may require a detailed description of the tool may not allow the tool to apply to some uses of the skill or apply penalties in another area when in use. I am more of a mind to allow the bonus from an undescribed tool as long as you bought it, have it on your sheet and and can carry the weight of it but, expect table variation. As for the stacking, what sort of +1 bonus do the Riding Straps say they give? If they are a circumstance bonus or undefined, I'd feel a DM would be within his rights to not allow them to stack. If the RSs grant some other bonus they should be fine unless the DM wishes to exercise his perogative over the MW Tools being applicable to the roll.
Lupo 07-16-07, 11:25 AM	I am the player in question. I was thinking the tool set would be a set of spurs, and a riding crop. But for my 2 cents, the LGCS says the PHB is open and rules support a masterwork tool for any skill. any PHB made-up masterwork tool is up to the DM's opinion. it is just a general guideline, any PC using it should have a good and SHORT explanation about it. some splatbooks and even the PHB feature individual detailed "masterwork items" that are more expensive than the PHB guideline of adding 50 gp. musical instrument (common) 5 gp - musical instrument (masterwork) 100 gp thieves' tools 30 gp - thieves' tools (masterwork) 100 gp so expect table variations on the made-up PHB items and if your DM don't like it, just take it. so far the most fun but also most off time taking discussion was about some masterwork wonderbra push-up as a diplomacy check enhancer :D if you have a masterwork item from a splatbook make sure to bring the book along ;) ciao martin m. ps: maybe the next LGCS should just ban the "generic" masterwork tool from the PHB as there are way too many splatbooks that feature special detailed "masterwork" tools. maybe this will happen IF they do a reprint of A&EG . . . . . pps: don't try to abuse it, otherwise authors would be tempted to give all their NPCs cheap check enhancers - level 1 rogues with an dex 18, tumble 4 ranks, skill focus (tumble) and a masterwork tumble kit will only fail the DC 15 tumble check on a 1 and 2, at level 2 they will ALWAYS make it.
MatteBlack 07-16-07, 12:05 PM	so far the most fun but also most off time taking discussion was about some masterwork wonderbra push-up as a diplomacy check enhancer :D Wouldn't that be disguise or bluff? ;)
Lupo 07-16-07, 12:30 PM	Wouldn't that be disguise or bluff? ;) no, it was used to modify the attitude of some guards to "friendly" ;) actually they became "helpful" or better "wanton" :D ciao martin m.
Mattastrophic 07-16-07, 01:37 PM	no, it was used to modify the attitude of some guards to "friendly" ;) actually they became "helpful" or better "wanton" :D Well, it works in real life, so why not. Anyways, when I as a DM run into MW tools, I tend to reward creativity. "MW Wonderbra" is less likely to fly than a well-thought-out description of the character's appearance, and why it took 50gp to reach it. My own Charisma-type owns: -MW Tumbling Heels -MW Dancing Soles -MW Tailored coat, adding to Bluff, GatherInfo, Diplomacy, and Intimidate (200GP total) -MW Instruments -MW Compositions, for Perform(sing) Worse comes to worse, the DM says "no" and I'm out a couple hundred gold. Oh well. -Matt