Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jonny_be_Good 06-01-06, 12:55 AM	I have a grappling Monk With a belt of str, he does 1D10 + 8 with unarmed attacks. I am about to hit 9th level and I am looking for a feat to complement my high str grapple attack. I was thinking Complete Warriors: Earth's Embrace , but after looking it over I don't think it's a good fit. When I am in a grapple, I will have 3 attacks as a full round action(flurry), so without the feat my attacks would be as follows: Att#1 1d10 + 8 Att#2 1d10 + 8 Att#3 1d10 + 8 _____________ Total: 3d10 + 24 or an Average of 39 pts of damage (if all opposed grapple checks end in my favor) with the feat, it would look like this Att#1 1d10 + 8 Att#2 pin Att#3 1d10 + 1d12 + 8 ____________________ 2d10 + 1d12 + 16 or an Average of 32 pt of damage. Can anyone suggest a better feat that would compliment my high str Grappling Monk?
Jay_Ibero_911 06-01-06, 01:25 AM	How about "Hold The Line" from Complete Warrior. That way if someone charges you, you get an AOO, which you could use to try to start a grapple, and completely screw over their charge. Not much LG legal stuff to enhance grappling directly...
kjenks 06-01-06, 07:50 AM	Agreed. Hold the Line is a great feat, especially if you wield a reach weapon. And grappling starts to lose its luster at APL 10, getting worse after that. The monsters you face tend to have much higher grapple checks and the spellcasters that you used to shut down by grappling will start to have grapple defenses (like Greater Invisibility, Freedom of Movement or Contingency + Blink "if I get grappled"). My 14th level grappler character basically stopped grappling things at APL 12, concentrating on other attack forms. Sure, he can still grapple pretty well (+25, 1d6+7 unarmed strike and 1d6+1d6+8 with +1 Frost armor spikes), but at higher APLs, he does better just hitting things.
kjenks 06-01-06, 07:52 AM	BTW, you should expect table variations on that "grappling with a flurry of blows" schtick because "grapple" is not a monk special weapon and some DMs won't let you do that.
redgamer 06-01-06, 01:37 PM	BTW, you should expect table variations on that "grappling with a flurry of blows" schtick because "grapple" is not a monk special weapon and some DMs won't let you do that. I believe the legality of this was answered explicately in the FAQ but I can't remember what way the sage ruled.
Arvagor 06-01-06, 03:26 PM	Yes, it was answered, and in the monk's favor... FAQ (v. 5/24/06), page 11: Can a monk make disarm, sunder, and trip attacks during her flurry of blows? What about grapple checks? What about bull rushes, overruns, or other special combat maneuvers? As long as every attack is made with one of the monk’s special weapons (that is, weapons allowed as part of a flurry), the monk can perform any special attack that takes the place of a normal attack. She’s free to disarm, sunder, trip, and grapple to her heart’s content.I've never understood why this is an issue for some DMs. The PHB also clearly states: Starting a Grapple To start a grapple, you need to grab and hold your target. Starting a grapple requires a successful melee attack roll. If you get multiple attacks, you can attempt to start a grapple multiple times (at successively lower base attack bonuses).and If You’re Grappling When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses.(Emphasis mine on both)
Howie23 06-01-06, 04:08 PM	Yes, it was answered, and in the monk's favor... FAQ (v. 5/24/06), page 11: I've never understood why this is an issue for some DMs. The FAQ reference mentioned refers to flurries made while attacking only with monk weapons. Flurries may be made with unarmed strikes or monk weapons (all of which are manufactured). So, the FAQ allows for grapples in a flurry, but only in a way that grapples can't be made. Grapple and unarmed strike are both types of unarmed attacks; one is specified as an attack that can be used in a flurry, the other isn't. If you don't understand this, you won't "understand why this is an issue for some DMs." Expect table variance both with reference to grapple in a flurry, as well as whether it applies only to starting a grapple or to grapple checks. There seems to be at least three schools of thought on this. David
Arvagor 06-01-06, 06:51 PM	The FAQ reference mentioned refers to flurries made while attacking only with monk weapons. Flurries may be made with unarmed strikes or monk weapons (all of which are manufactured). So, the FAQ allows for grapples in a flurry, but only in a way that grapples can't be made.Then have you considered that your interpretation of 'how a grapple can be made' might be flawed? I will agree that WotC editing can be improved in many places, but there is no need to even mention grappling in the FAQ answer if it is done 'in a way that grapples can't be made'. If I can flurry with unarmed strikes or with monk weapons, AND if I can grapple in a flurry AND if I can't use a manufactured weapon to start a flurry, then it's clear that the only "weapon" remaining is my unarmed strike, therefore that's what is used to start the grapple... Grapple and unarmed strike are both types of unarmed attacks; one is specified as an attack that can be used in a flurry, the other isn't. If you don't understand this, you won't "understand why this is an issue for some DMs."I understand it perfectly well... The Monk's description in the PHB states that I may used unarmed strikes as part of a flurry; the FAQ states that I can make attacks to start a grapple and grapple checks as part of a flurry.
Howie23 06-01-06, 08:30 PM	Then have you considered that your interpretation of 'how a grapple can be made' might be flawed? Yes, I have. It essentially requires that an unarmed strike be redefined, or codifies that a weapon can be used for an unarmed attack. Until one of those changes is provided, I will consider the FAQ ruling to mean what it says, that a monk can grapple in a flurry if (and only if) using a monk weapon that is capable of grappling (which, AFAIK, doesn't exist). I will agree that WotC editing can be improved in many places, but there is no need to even mention grappling in the FAQ answer if it is done 'in a way that grapples can't be made'. I agree. It muddies the whole thing. If I can flurry with unarmed strikes or with monk weapons, AND if I can grapple in a flurry AND if I can't use a manufactured weapon to start a flurry, then it's clear that the only "weapon" remaining is my unarmed strike, therefore that's what is used to start the grapple... I believe you mean "..use a manufactured weapon to start a GRAPPLE.." Your chain of logic uses a premise that applies to the set of manufactured monk weapons, which excludes unarmed strike, in order to prove that armed strike can be used. It's logically invalid. I understand your position. It requires that unarmed strike be expanded in scope to incorporate other forms of unarmed attacks. That expansion is unsupported by the rules. I understand it perfectly well... The Monk's description in the PHB states that I may used unarmed strikes as part of a flurry; the FAQ states that I can make attacks to start a grapple and grapple checks as part of a flurry. First of all, the FAQ does not make the statement you've attributed to it. It does not make an explicit statement about whether it applies to the unarmed attack to start a grapple, or the grapple check(s), or both, as you have stated above. Second, your statements above have nothing to do with the distinction between unarmed strike and unarmed attack. My response was in reply to your statement that 1) it was a closed matter (it isn't), and 2) that you didn't understand why there was variance (because people are used to assuming that unarmed strikes include all unarmed attacks). Good gaming. David
JamesMaissen 06-02-06, 11:58 AM	Then have you considered that your interpretation of 'how a grapple can be made' might be flawed? I will agree that WotC editing can be improved in many places, but there is no need to even mention grappling in the FAQ answer if it is done 'in a way that grapples can't be made'. Take the FAQ as a whole. It's written as if you were talking with one of the designers and he's explaining rules to you. Sometimes he will be off in what or how he says things. For example look at where he talks about Drawing a weapon during a move. It's under the Draw or Sheathe weapon heading and by mistake he combines the two saying that the PhB says that you can draw or sheathe a weapon during a move. It's a simple error. As simple as any rules error you may have made when talking with someone else. In this FAQ, he is talking about what special actions one could possibly do in a flurry of blows. Look at the thrust of the question and how he's answering it. Don't read into things here, as it's not reasonable to do so. Also it's quite concievable that in a subsequent book, say the 'Races of the Complete Essential Ninja Treant' that there will be a weapon that one is allowed to both make grapple attacks with that is considered a monk weapon. Other books have already expanded the list of monk weapons (ie tri-staff from A&EG) and I believe the mancatcher (CV?) allows one to make grapple attacks with it. The designers have, in the past, tried to be open ended in this fashion (one of their smarter ideas). To whit: There's nothing that prevents a flurrying Monk from replacing an attack with a grapple attack, other than the normal restrictions for flurry. It leaves unsaid whether the 'normal' method for making a grapple attack is considered a monk weapon. It's unfortunately a bit of a muddied area. And there will be variation from table to table as a result of it. -James
JamesMaissen 06-02-06, 12:11 PM	Can anyone suggest a better feat that would compliment my high str Grappling Monk? It would depend on your stats and feat selection currently. If you could reasonably obtain the feat then Karmic Strike seems perfect for grapplers, James