Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GrahamWills 07-24-07, 10:30 AM	Nice work on the greyhawk ruins sourcebook; well written and very clear. I do have one question, though, which is with regard to characters who were members of an organization that is now an *affiliation*. In particular, if you have a character who is a member of the nightwatch, due to taking advantage of AR access to membership a goodwhile ago, how does that translate into affiliation points? For the nightwatch, to have "special dispensation" to carry weapons without the need for a license requires an affiliate score of 11+. However, in the GM's notes it says that "members in good standing are exempt from all weapon restrictions" under the notes from COR6-03. So, going by the rules as written, my character would have something like 7 or 8 affiliation points with the Nightwatch -- I'd have to check what level the thieves we captured were, somehow -- and would not qualify for special dispensation by virtue of his affiliation. But he would qualify under the DM notes for COR6-03. I would therefore have to conclude that he had special, non-affiliation based status in the nightwatchmen. Alternatively I could, by the rules, not join the affiliation, but still be a member based on the DM's notes. Either option seems a little clumsy, rulewise. Might I suggest that revising the document simply to have the DM record set a fixed affiliation point bonus instead of the fixed feature? Along the lines of: COR6-03. Characters who joined the nightwatch as a result of playing this adventure receive 5 bonus affilation points as a result of their notable actions. Similarly you might issue penalties for some of the other mods. It would seem starnge that being a "nemesis of the theives guild" has no affect on your affiliation ...
TetsujinOni 07-24-07, 10:48 AM	Nice work on the greyhawk ruins sourcebook; well written and very clear. I do have one question, though, which is with regard to characters who were members of an organization that is now an *affiliation*. In particular, if you have a character who is a member of the nightwatch, due to taking advantage of AR access to membership a goodwhile ago, how does that translate into affiliation points? For the nightwatch, to have "special dispensation" to carry weapons without the need for a license requires an affiliate score of 11+. However, in the GM's notes it says that "members in good standing are exempt from all weapon restrictions" under the notes from COR6-03. So, going by the rules as written, my character would have something like 7 or 8 affiliation points with the Nightwatch -- I'd have to check what level the thieves we captured were, somehow -- and would not qualify for special dispensation by virtue of his affiliation. But he would qualify under the DM notes for COR6-03. I would therefore have to conclude that he had special, non-affiliation based status in the nightwatchmen. Alternatively I could, by the rules, not join the affiliation, but still be a member based on the DM's notes. Either option seems a little clumsy, rulewise. Might I suggest that revising the document simply to have the DM record set a fixed affiliation point bonus instead of the fixed feature? Along the lines of: COR6-03. Characters who joined the nightwatch as a result of playing this adventure receive 5 bonus affilation points as a result of their notable actions. Similarly you might issue penalties for some of the other mods. It would seem starnge that being a "nemesis of the theives guild" has no affect on your affiliation ... Similarly for some of the COR7 adventures and other affiliations. Though the affiliation I'm particularly concerned with seems to already have an appropriate place to slot in the bonus.
Samwise 07-24-07, 12:30 PM	I've asked Creighton about this already. The answer is, the favors are not going to be converted. You do not become a member of the affiliation, you do not get any of the other abilities of the affiliation, and you do not track affiliation points for a PC with the favor. Please note, only PCs that play in the Ruins can join the affiliations. By default, that will limit the interaction between prior favors and the affiliations. I would expect new players with specific issues will have them addressed as needed. Sam Weiss Core Reviewer and Affiliation Author
GrahamWills 07-24-07, 12:53 PM	Got it. So any existing level 2+ players of those mods will not be playing under the affiliation rules and so they are a "Nightwatchmen", but not a member of the affiliation. Any Greyhawk Ruins Nightwatchmen-affiliated character who then plays the core mode and may become 'a member of the nightwatch' is basically in an unusual circumstance and GMs should exercise common sense. Sounds good to me; again thanks on a nice job.
Samwise 07-24-07, 01:10 PM	Well, I suppose it would be more the player exercising restraint, and realizing he doesn't have to use the favor and pay 4 TUs to get a benefit he will get naturally if he waits to get a few more affiliation points. But yes, the DM just needs to remember that the affiliation is not the favor, and one doesn't give benefits, or require costs of the other.
Potato Weasel 07-25-07, 09:51 AM	I just find it real disappointing to have a favor that says 'you are a member of such and such guild if you do x' and it apparently serves no purpose whatsoever.
Samwise 07-25-07, 12:47 PM	I just find it real disappointing to have a favor that says 'you are a member of such and such guild if you do x' and it apparently serves no purpose whatsoever. The favor does serve a purpose. It just doesn't provide a bonus for an affiliation. That doesn't mean its original purpose no longer exists.
TetsujinOni 07-25-07, 01:47 PM	The favor does serve a purpose. It just doesn't provide a bonus for an affiliation. That doesn't mean its original purpose no longer exists. Assuming I am correctly reading the non-spoiler message above... Clearly, the favor's access grant is good in and of itself, the question is the effect on your affiliations as it declares you a member of [a GRS affililation] when expending the favor. I think that this is going to generate a >>lot<< of friction. (I hadn't seen this portion of the thread before I emailed the spoilerific version of this question to Creighton today)... The specific favor that makes you a member of one of the affiliations involves a PrC with "Contact your local triad" conversion notes in the LGCS... It was my hope that the various issues that PrC has in LG that make that triad contact desirable would be addressed by the affiliation and multiple affiliation rules provided by the GRS. If not, could we get a DC addressing the Living-campaign conversion requirements of that PrC? If details on which PrC I'm talking about are needed to unpack this mess of don't-spoiler-the-mod, please PM me.
Potato Weasel 07-26-07, 10:39 AM	The access I was talking about was to a very common prestige class, and only noted that if you took it, you were a member of a certain organization in greyhawk. There was no contact your triad written on the ar, I was hoping that it would give me access to the org when the ruins modules came out, but obviously not.
TetsujinOni 07-26-07, 11:49 AM	The access I was talking about was to a very common prestige class, and only noted that if you took it, you were a member of a certain organization in greyhawk. There was no contact your triad written on the ar, I was hoping that it would give me access to the org when the ruins modules came out, but obviously not. The aforementioned common PrC has conversion notes in the LGCS that instruct you to contact your triad; since the access was granted by Core, as I understand it, that'd be contact Core instead.
Samwise 07-26-07, 12:07 PM	Scouring my archives, I finally found what you are talking about. I'll pass it along to Creighton.