Post/Author/DateTime	Post
timerino 10-10-06, 06:28 PM	David started me thinking about this ... none of us are entitled to full xp for role playing on ARs. Yet, we all expect it. When have you seen a judge not award full xp for RP? and why? I had a judge once ding a human Ranger at the party whose favored enemy (maxed out on a APL 12 table) is human and had no RP reason. I didn't disagree with the judge, but at lower APL tables, maybe the judge can coach the player on having a reason to have a seemingly contradictory build choice. I have heard stories of judges ding tables for using the cleche 'greyhawking' to assure loot access on ARs. tim
ezreal2001 10-10-06, 07:24 PM	David started me thinking about this ... none of us are entitled to full xp for role playing on ARs. Yet, we all expect it. When have you seen a judge not award full xp for RP? and why? I had a judge once ding a human Ranger at the party whose favored enemy (maxed out on a APL 12 table) is human and had no RP reason. I didn't disagree with the judge, but at lower APL tables, maybe the judge can coach the player on having a reason to have a seemingly contradictory build choice. I have heard stories of judges ding tables for using the cleche 'greyhawking' to assure loot access on ARs. tim I'll do it when the players don't make the effort of providing "in character" responses and behaviour for their PC's. That said, it really doesn't take that much effort to provide some sort of persona for a PC even if its just the player being him or herself. I must say that the examples given are a little odd - in 3.5 the Favoured Enemy class abilty was modified so that its no longer a hatred, but a better understanding of the weaknesses of a specific group; as for "Greyhawking", the last thing I want when gming a 4 hour con slot is for a table to provide a description of the same house keeping function more than once.
trollbill 10-10-06, 11:13 PM	I think a lot of DMs just give full RP XP because doing otherwise requires subjective rather than objective decision making. Which in turn means that a player that disagrees with the ruling will argue with you. So most DMs just give full to avoid table conflict. I haven't docked anyone yet, but I could see a few situations where I might. Like an Occult Slayer who is buddy-buddy with the party spell casters.
JohnduBois 10-11-06, 12:18 AM	As a DM, I've only docked roleplaying experience once. In a year 4 Furyondy regional adventure, the PCs were told quite clearly not to reveal to anyone outside the conversation (consisting of the king, party, and regional High Priest of Heironeous) any details about their mission. These details quite explicitly included that they were searching for information about the king's only son - for whom the king had had a closed casket funeral - and that the prince was in fact now a vampire trying to take over the kingdom. After making a decision that caused them to lose the trail of the person they were following, the PCs decided to Gather Information. I asked each character individually what they were asking about, and two Lawful characters replied that they were looking for a "vampire in black armor who has a coat of arms just like that of the king's, only in red" - a clear violation of the oath of total secrecy (if it's not clear in my description, you'll have to take my word for it - it was REALLY clear in the mod). Since there was no other method of punishing the characters for spilling the beans like that, I decided that since they were Lawful characters breaking an oath due to player misremembrance, that denying roleplaying XP was called for. Even worse, one of the two characters missed levelling by 2 XP.
Madfox11 10-11-06, 03:27 AM	It is really hard to judge role-playing of strangers, and it can also be unfair, if they just happen to have a different style. So the only times I as a DM did not grant RP xp was when the players actually acted in a way detrimental to the fun of the game even after having giving a warning. For example, during Folly three players were constantly biggering and belittling each other PCs out of character (and clearly making the game much less fun to play). Luckily that does not happen all too often...
JJeff 10-11-06, 05:16 AM	I gave 30 short of max Xp once. It was because of an objectective that was not completed by the PCs that the module listed as an XP giving objective. The main problem was that it was not obvious to the PCs, and even with the module in my hand I could not find any obvious reason that the PCs HAD to take the path, and it cost them 30XP. In my mind I thought of the XP as XP gained for an innovative idea that would not be normally pursued, but since the module listed it as an XP gaining objective (non-combat by the way), I gave 30xp less. Then found out my PCs ended up short of 20xp to Level... I was so sad that I did what i did....
amnuxoll 10-11-06, 02:51 PM	The unfortunate thing is that docking someone's xp is really doing them a favor as it's gp that's really precious in LG and by reducing their xp you're effectively putting them above the curve. =( :AMN:
Mommy was an Orc 10-11-06, 03:48 PM	The PCs decided to Gather Information. I asked each character individually what they were asking about, and two Lawful characters replied that they were looking for a "vampire in black armor who has a coat of arms just like that of the king's, only in red" - a clear violation of the oath of total secrecy (if it's not clear in my description, you'll have to take my word for it - it was REALLY clear in the mod). Since there was no other method of punishing the characters for spilling the beans like that, I decided that since they were Lawful characters breaking an oath due to player misremembrance, that denying roleplaying XP was called for. Even worse, one of the two characters missed levelling by 2 XP. That doesn't sound quite right - two things jump out at me: They're not the only ones gathering information at any point in time, presumably if 6 people are asking lots of questions about something, the King will find out. At which point there should be much more specific consequences on the AR or in the regional documentation. If I were going to penalize them for doing such, I would have broken into character with some random NPC - see if they're actually telling the NPC this information straight up. Gather Information isn't necessarily telling the other person what you're trying to find out spelled out in such a manner. And as amnuxoll noted, the way to really hit PCs where it hurts is to penalize their gold, not their XP. Unfortunately, that's often difficult to do.
JohnduBois 10-11-06, 06:24 PM	That doesn't sound quite right - two things jump out at me: If I were going to penalize them for doing such, I would have broken into character with some random NPC - see if they're actually telling the NPC this information straight up. Gather Information isn't necessarily telling the other person what you're trying to find out spelled out in such a manner. For clarification: I specifically asked the PCs, "What are you asking people when you see them?" The response was, "I ask if they've seen a guy who is wearing black armor and has a coat of arms that looks like the king's, only with red instead of blue, and is either a vampire or the king's son."
budleiser 10-25-06, 11:32 PM	LOL. Not getting full XP would be awesome! If more judges did this I would RP less. (im not serious I like RPing, just pointing out the loopyness of it all)
clannagh 10-26-06, 07:08 PM	I dock role play experience regularly. But not for any reasons connected to character build. It is not the GM's job to teach players how to build characters. When I dock experience it occurs because the player simply did not bother to roleplay. For example a number of our players prefer to discuss character builds while the rest of the party tries to solve the mystery and only get involved once dice rolling starts ... claiming their "role playing" is in the character build. One guy even gave his character a vow of silence so he has an excuse not to talk in game ... but I still dock him XP if he doesnt get invovled because even a mute character can be role played.
jokem 10-26-06, 07:45 PM	The obvious answer is when a character is too high or too low for the APL.
_m_ 10-26-06, 09:31 PM	I dock role play experience regularly. But not for any reasons connected to character build. It is not the GM's job to teach players how to build characters. When I dock experience it occurs because the player simply did not bother to roleplay. For example a number of our players prefer to discuss character builds while the rest of the party tries to solve the mystery and only get involved once dice rolling starts ... claiming their "role playing" is in the character build. One guy even gave his character a vow of silence so he has an excuse not to talk in game ... but I still dock him XP if he doesnt get invovled because even a mute character can be role played. have you ever docked me rp exp?
clannagh 10-26-06, 09:40 PM	have you ever docked me rp exp? From memory Alvin has been arrested, fined, jailed for several time units, narrowly escaped execution, criticised for behaviour unbecoming of a Ritter and is wanted in several kingdoms and principalities across the flaness but has not yet been docked roleplay XP. He has come close occasionally as my reading of "role play" is you have to interact with the module not just play the same insanely annoying gnomish leprechaun wizard with a stage Irish accent every game .. but so far he has go away with it.
_m_ 10-26-06, 09:51 PM	From memory Alvin has been arrested, fined, jailed for several time units, narrowly escaped execution, criticised for behaviour unbecoming of a Ritter and is wanted in several kingdoms and principalities across the flaness but has not yet been docked roleplay XP. He has come close occasionally as my reading of "role play" is you have to interact with the module not just play the same insanely annoying gnomish leprechaun wizard with a stage Irish accent every game .. but so far he has go away with it. hehe... hes working on it. he didnt kill a single bad thing in the last game... even the druid girl who wanted us to do stuff!!! and he was even mildly polite to someone... i think. whats more... he didnt kill half the party in that congamethatkilledmyparty. it was someone ELSE. so hes getting better... or worse i guess... hes getting more realistic.
gomeztoo 10-27-06, 11:35 AM	Heh. I can probably be criticized for several ways in which I run my characters, but not roleplaying them has so far not yet been part of that. But I like to talk, so that makes it easier. I know one person who plays a mute character. However he plays that out (at one point miming accross the table for my character to kill the captured orcs... odd how nobody caught on until she started decapitating them...).