Post/Author/DateTime	Post
spellbow 04-07-06, 03:43 PM	i have a question on the feat agumented healing. the feat says it heals 2 extra hitponts per spell level. so if you cast lesser vigor, would you get fast healing 3 instead of 1
Rawveggie 04-07-06, 06:00 PM	I'd say no because Fast Healing is a specific ability which Augment Healing does not alter. There is a reason that the only spells mentioned as examples for Augment Healing are those which heal actual hit point damage, instead of granting a special ability like Lesser Vigor. -Raw
pedr 04-07-06, 06:15 PM	Page 14 of the 26th January 2006 D&D FAQ: What effect does the Augment Healing feat (Complete Divine, page 79) have on lesser vigor (Complete Divine, page 186) and similar spells? Augment Healing adds twice the spell’s level to the total healing it provides. The simplest method is to have the spell apply the extra healing to the first round of fast healing. Thus, lesser vigor (a 1st-level spell) would cure an extra 2 hp of damage in the first round, for a total of 3 hit points. Each round thereafter it would heal the normal 1 hp of damage. Mass lesser vigor (a 3rd-level spell) would cure an extra 6 hp of damage to each target in the first round (for a total of 7 hit points), and would heal 1 hp of damage each round thereafter as normal.
jokem 04-13-06, 03:14 PM	Page 14 of the 26th January 2006 D&D FAQ: What effect does the Augment Healing feat (Complete Divine, page 79) have on lesser vigor (Complete Divine, page 186) and similar spells? Augment Healing adds twice the spell’s level to the total healing it provides. The simplest method is to have the spell apply the extra healing to the first round of fast healing. Thus, lesser vigor (a 1st-level spell) would cure an extra 2 hp of damage in the first round, for a total of 3 hit points. Each round thereafter it would heal the normal 1 hp of damage. Mass lesser vigor (a 3rd-level spell) would cure an extra 6 hp of damage to each target in the first round (for a total of 7 hit points), and would heal 1 hp of damage each round thereafter as normal. I think this is not quite right. Cure spells work differently than Vigor Spells. Cure actually uses positive energy, whereas vigor grants fast healing. I would say the augmented healing feat would not work with Vigor, or might add enough extra rounds to the end of it to add in the healing.
redgamer 04-13-06, 03:31 PM	Its the way the rules work in Living Greyhawk however. IIRC Lessor Vigor does not technically grant fast healing anyways.
Namarus 04-13-06, 03:45 PM	Its the way the rules work in Living Greyhawk however. IIRC Lessor Vigor does not technically grant fast healing anyways. You recall incorrectly it does grant fast healing. Btw augment healing stats that it increases the amount healed by Conjuration [healing] spells. The vigour line of spells fall under that category, so all this conjector is moot. As the FAQ states the best way for a GM to add this extra healing in is by having it affect the first round the spell is cast. I use the same rules when I use the magic of the land feat with vigour spells.
redgamer 04-13-06, 04:26 PM	So I was. Sorry to everyone who was confused by my post. Was Complete Divine the first instance of the vigor spells?
Namarus 04-14-06, 09:08 AM	So I was. Sorry to everyone who was confused by my post. Was Complete Divine the first instance of the vigor spells? Originally I believe that Masters of the Wild had a regeneration line of spells that Vigour seems to have been developed from.
Casebier 04-14-06, 11:59 AM	Finally, a topic I'm well versed in... :) In Masters of the Wild, there was the Regenerate Wounds line of spells that gave the recipient(s) the Fast Healing: X ability. Druids also had an advantage in that they acquired the later versions of the spell before clerics, and only druids were able to cast the Mass versions (as it should have been, considering what the spell was). The Vigor line of spells work generally the same way (except for the spell levels). The spell itself grants the Fast Healing: X ability (which is an Extraordinary ability). Fast Healing heals nonlethal damage first and lethal damage only after all nonlethal has been healed. Fast Healing is applied ON THAT PERSON's TURN. If you look at these spells and the feat with an open mind, Augment Healing works just fine. Lesser Vigor(C1/D1) already magically heals 0 hp when cast, Augment Healing just adds to this amount: 0+2=2. Of course, the rules state how to determine when the healing takes effect and the D&D FAQ "suggests" a different method for simplicity. Which one you use seems to be up to you or your DM. NOTE - I had made a mistake when I first wrote this, and wasn't able to check MotW until today. So if the note looks a little redundant now, it's because I didn't want to make changes to the entire reply and run the risk of somebody not recognizing the fact that this was my original reply. John Jr
JamesMaissen 04-16-06, 02:40 AM	Finally, a topic I'm well versed in... :) In Masters of the Wild, there was a line of spells (and I forgot the spell name :( ) that actually healed the recipient(s) a certain number of hp ON THE CASTER's TURN. This was magical healing, so there was no problem with the Augment Healing feat. Also, since it was magical healing, it would heal both nonlethal and lethal damage at the same time. Druids also had an advantage in that they acquired the later versions of the spell before clerics (as it should have been, considering what the spell was). The Vigor line of spells, however, work differently. The spell itself grants the Fast Healing: X ability (which is an Extraordinary ability). Fast Healing heals nonlethal damage first and lethal damage only after all nonlethal has been healed. Fast Healing is applied ON THAT PERSON's TURN. If you look at these spells and the feat with an open mind, Augment Healing works just fine. Lesser Vigor(C1/D1) already magically heals 0 hp when cast, Augment Healing just adds to this amount: 0+2=2. Of course, the rules state how to determine when the healing takes effect and the D&D FAQ "suggests" a different method for simplicity. Which one you use seems to be up to you or your DM. John Jr Really the spell should have changed schools when they changed it's mechanics. As you note it used to be a healing spell. Now it gives fast healing, and should thus be a transmutation spell. At the very least it doesn't heal damage, but rather grants fast healing. Augment healing should not apply. However in one of their rare rules rulings they have ruled that it does so qualify. It's not that big of a deal and the consistancy is, in fact, better than the accuracy imho. -James
solbergb 04-16-06, 04:29 AM	If it had changed schools, there would be no debate. As it is, they put a spell that granted healing in conjuration(healing). Augment healing affects any conjuration(healing) spell but also talks about affecting the damage healed (not considering there may be conjuration healing that doesn't have damage removal built in) The FAQ takes one of the primary ways of interpreting the conflict, granting it when the spell is cast (it raises it from "0 damage healed" to "0+2xspell level damage healed) but does nothing on later rounds, because auggie healing only fires at casting. The other way to interpret is to not allow the feat for spells that don't do damage, but given the FAQ entry does cover the point, even if he used waffle words, most judges are gonna run it the way the FAQ says.
Casebier 04-16-06, 02:54 PM	I wish to apologize for a mistake I made in my previous post. (And I'll be editing that post after I submit this one.) The Regenerate Wounds line of spells from Masters of the Wild did indeed grant Fast Healing. It was still Conj(Healing), as well. However, back then, we were using 3.0 rules, so there probably was more confusion on my part due to that. Since the old version granted Fast Healing as well, neither version of the spells ever healed 1 subdual/nonlethal damage and 1 lethal damage at the same time. John Jr