Immediate Magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Immediate Magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arkrite
05-18-07, 06:41 PM Can a character in the Living Greyhawk setting use the "Immediate Magic" class skill (by giving up their ability to get a familiar) from the Player's Handbook II?
JohnduBois
05-18-07, 07:02 PM Only if you specifically receive acces via campaign documentation (e.g. a meta-organization or an AR).
Dr.Cornelius
05-20-07, 08:05 PM Is there any question that Immediate Magic (PH2, alt class feature) is vastly overpowered? If the Triads have any sense you won't see access any time soon.

The Sorcerer alt class Metamagic Specialist is also questionable. Other than that the others seem balanced.
Maesto
05-20-07, 09:58 PM I've heard that metamagic specialist and immediate magic are closed, but that might just be hearsay.
Hariman
05-21-07, 01:15 AM Is there any question that Immediate Magic (PH2, alt class feature) is vastly overpowered? If the Triads have any sense you won't see access any time soon.

The Sorcerer alt class Metamagic Specialist is also questionable. Other than that the others seem balanced.

OK, now I agree that Immediate Magic is borderline, if not outright broken. (Dazing an attacking enemy as an immediate action, OUCH!)

But Metamagic Specialist is limited to 3 + intelligence modifier times per day. (Even maxing out INT will only get you nine or ten uses with a headband of intellect +6. Five or six uses will likely be the upper limit.) So even if a Sorcerer takes quicken spell, he's only going to quicken a few spells each day. Plus, it's not "free" metamagic. You still have to apply the level increase from the metamagic feat itself.

I'd worry more about sorcerers with Arcane Preparation and Quicken Spell. They're limited only by spell slots and how many they're willing to prepare.

Or, for that matter, Rapid Metamagic. Rapid Metamagic means that sorcerers get that damn move action and the use of quicken spell.

And for heaven's sake, IT'S ONLY A MOVE ACTION! WIZARD'S GET THOSE FOR FREE WHEN CASTING SPELLS WITH METAMAGIC!

Hariman
JohnduBois
05-21-07, 01:16 AM I've heard that metamagic specialist and immediate magic are closed, but that might just be hearsay.

Officially, it's hearsay. Some regions/metaregions may consider them closed, but there is not yet a list of Open/Closed alternate class features (although there are some that you can be sure will make the list when one eventually emerges).
Hariman
05-21-07, 01:43 AM Officially, it's hearsay. Some regions/metaregions may consider them closed, but there is not yet a list of Open/Closed alternate class features (although there are some that you can be sure will make the list when one eventually emerges).

As can be guessed by my last post, I'm all for Wizards not getting Immediate Magic. (Sorry Arkrite, but some of those wizard special abilities are too good.)

And the Bard alternate class feature seems suspicious to me.

BUT, Immediate Magic is the only ability that looks utterly broken to me. (Enchantment/Evocation) Even Metamagic Specialist for sorcerers isn't that bad when you consider that it isn't "Free". You really only get either a move action or a quickened spell. Depending on your level/metamagic feats.
magebeast
05-21-07, 02:30 AM And for heaven's sake, IT'S ONLY A MOVE ACTION! WIZARD'S GET THOSE FOR FREE WHEN CASTING SPELLS WITH METAMAGIC!

Honestly, it's not like sorcerers are overpowered. I'm spending a lot of time with a couple wizards and they are seriously outdoing me at the moment (although they do have 1 and 2 levels on me respectively - things change when I hit 6).

I just wish I could sudden maximize without spending a full round action to do it :\
copper_wyrmling
05-21-07, 03:31 AM Honestly, it's not like sorcerers are overpowered. I'm spending a lot of time with a couple wizards and they are seriously outdoing me at the moment (although they do have 1 and 2 levels on me respectively - things change when I hit 6).

I just wish I could sudden maximize without spending a full round action to do it :\

So take Rapid Metamagic at L9 or L12 ;)
Britt
05-21-07, 04:22 AM You will never get access to Immediate Magic in LG. Forget about it and move on :)
Timlagor
05-21-07, 08:15 AM You will never get access to Immediate Magic in LG. Forget about it and move on :)

Yay :)
Some of them aren't that broken but Abrupt Jaunt is game-changing.
Hariman
05-21-07, 11:35 AM Honestly, it's not like sorcerers are overpowered. I'm spending a lot of time with a couple wizards and they are seriously outdoing me at the moment (although they do have 1 and 2 levels on me respectively - things change when I hit 6).

I just wish I could sudden maximize without spending a full round action to do it :\

Oh I know, I chose Wizard for my Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster (Now going for Rogue/Conjurer/Spellwarp Sniper/Unseen Seer/Arcane Trickster) because of the better spells known, the faster spell progression, and the lack of metamagic casting time increase.

I just miss those extra sorcerer spell slots when I run out of spells.

Unfortunately, no, not unfortunately, THANKFULLY, Immediate Magic has been ruled as overpowered. Which it is.

Abrupt Jaunt, Instant Daze, Counterfire and Sudden Shift are the main culprits. Think about how much they add to a Wizard's already formidable capabilities:

Abrupt Jaunt lets a Wizard completely dodge a blow and any additional blows by moving away from the enemy.

Instant Daze can daze an enemy, utterly ruining a full attack. Yes, there's a will save, but BDFs usually have low will saves.

Counterfire scales up to 5d6 at higher levels, and is only an immediate action. It won't do much against BDFs and tougher opponents, but it will be noticed against casters and weaker opponents.

Sudden Shift acts like Swift Fly, Swift Swim (nonexistent, but it would be cool), or Swift Spider Climb. Flitting across short gaps, moving freely underwater, and climbing around for short distances is HUGE. It's an ability that is just amazing.

Which is why Britt has notified us that it will be closed.

Now my question is: Will we see access to Metamagic Specialist? Or is that also on the "too good for losing a familiar" list?
magebeast
05-21-07, 01:13 PM So take Rapid Metamagic at L9 or L12 ;)

It's on the plan!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arkrite 05-18-07, 06:41 PM	Can a character in the Living Greyhawk setting use the "Immediate Magic" class skill (by giving up their ability to get a familiar) from the Player's Handbook II?
JohnduBois 05-18-07, 07:02 PM	Only if you specifically receive acces via campaign documentation (e.g. a meta-organization or an AR).
Dr.Cornelius 05-20-07, 08:05 PM	Is there any question that Immediate Magic (PH2, alt class feature) is vastly overpowered? If the Triads have any sense you won't see access any time soon. The Sorcerer alt class Metamagic Specialist is also questionable. Other than that the others seem balanced.
Maesto 05-20-07, 09:58 PM	I've heard that metamagic specialist and immediate magic are closed, but that might just be hearsay.
Hariman 05-21-07, 01:15 AM	Is there any question that Immediate Magic (PH2, alt class feature) is vastly overpowered? If the Triads have any sense you won't see access any time soon. The Sorcerer alt class Metamagic Specialist is also questionable. Other than that the others seem balanced. OK, now I agree that Immediate Magic is borderline, if not outright broken. (Dazing an attacking enemy as an immediate action, OUCH!) But Metamagic Specialist is limited to 3 + intelligence modifier times per day. (Even maxing out INT will only get you nine or ten uses with a headband of intellect +6. Five or six uses will likely be the upper limit.) So even if a Sorcerer takes quicken spell, he's only going to quicken a few spells each day. Plus, it's not "free" metamagic. You still have to apply the level increase from the metamagic feat itself. I'd worry more about sorcerers with Arcane Preparation and Quicken Spell. They're limited only by spell slots and how many they're willing to prepare. Or, for that matter, Rapid Metamagic. Rapid Metamagic means that sorcerers get that damn move action and the use of quicken spell. And for heaven's sake, IT'S ONLY A MOVE ACTION! WIZARD'S GET THOSE FOR FREE WHEN CASTING SPELLS WITH METAMAGIC! Hariman
JohnduBois 05-21-07, 01:16 AM	I've heard that metamagic specialist and immediate magic are closed, but that might just be hearsay. Officially, it's hearsay. Some regions/metaregions may consider them closed, but there is not yet a list of Open/Closed alternate class features (although there are some that you can be sure will make the list when one eventually emerges).
Hariman 05-21-07, 01:43 AM	Officially, it's hearsay. Some regions/metaregions may consider them closed, but there is not yet a list of Open/Closed alternate class features (although there are some that you can be sure will make the list when one eventually emerges). As can be guessed by my last post, I'm all for Wizards not getting Immediate Magic. (Sorry Arkrite, but some of those wizard special abilities are too good.) And the Bard alternate class feature seems suspicious to me. BUT, Immediate Magic is the only ability that looks utterly broken to me. (Enchantment/Evocation) Even Metamagic Specialist for sorcerers isn't that bad when you consider that it isn't "Free". You really only get either a move action or a quickened spell. Depending on your level/metamagic feats.
magebeast 05-21-07, 02:30 AM	And for heaven's sake, IT'S ONLY A MOVE ACTION! WIZARD'S GET THOSE FOR FREE WHEN CASTING SPELLS WITH METAMAGIC! Honestly, it's not like sorcerers are overpowered. I'm spending a lot of time with a couple wizards and they are seriously outdoing me at the moment (although they do have 1 and 2 levels on me respectively - things change when I hit 6). I just wish I could sudden maximize without spending a full round action to do it :\
copper_wyrmling 05-21-07, 03:31 AM	Honestly, it's not like sorcerers are overpowered. I'm spending a lot of time with a couple wizards and they are seriously outdoing me at the moment (although they do have 1 and 2 levels on me respectively - things change when I hit 6). I just wish I could sudden maximize without spending a full round action to do it :\ So take Rapid Metamagic at L9 or L12 ;)
Britt 05-21-07, 04:22 AM	You will never get access to Immediate Magic in LG. Forget about it and move on :)
Timlagor 05-21-07, 08:15 AM	You will never get access to Immediate Magic in LG. Forget about it and move on :) Yay :) Some of them aren't that broken but Abrupt Jaunt is game-changing.
Hariman 05-21-07, 11:35 AM	Honestly, it's not like sorcerers are overpowered. I'm spending a lot of time with a couple wizards and they are seriously outdoing me at the moment (although they do have 1 and 2 levels on me respectively - things change when I hit 6). I just wish I could sudden maximize without spending a full round action to do it :\ Oh I know, I chose Wizard for my Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster (Now going for Rogue/Conjurer/Spellwarp Sniper/Unseen Seer/Arcane Trickster) because of the better spells known, the faster spell progression, and the lack of metamagic casting time increase. I just miss those extra sorcerer spell slots when I run out of spells. Unfortunately, no, not unfortunately, THANKFULLY, Immediate Magic has been ruled as overpowered. Which it is. Abrupt Jaunt, Instant Daze, Counterfire and Sudden Shift are the main culprits. Think about how much they add to a Wizard's already formidable capabilities: Abrupt Jaunt lets a Wizard completely dodge a blow and any additional blows by moving away from the enemy. Instant Daze can daze an enemy, utterly ruining a full attack. Yes, there's a will save, but BDFs usually have low will saves. Counterfire scales up to 5d6 at higher levels, and is only an immediate action. It won't do much against BDFs and tougher opponents, but it will be noticed against casters and weaker opponents. Sudden Shift acts like Swift Fly, Swift Swim (nonexistent, but it would be cool), or Swift Spider Climb. Flitting across short gaps, moving freely underwater, and climbing around for short distances is HUGE. It's an ability that is just amazing. Which is why Britt has notified us that it will be closed. Now my question is: Will we see access to Metamagic Specialist? Or is that also on the "too good for losing a familiar" list?
magebeast 05-21-07, 01:13 PM	So take Rapid Metamagic at L9 or L12 ;) It's on the plan!