Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ferol, Debtor of Torm 12-31-07, 01:30 AM	Is there some way for an animal companion to get improved grapple without taking improved unarmed strike? I've heard people say that creatures with natural weapons don't have to take improved unarmed strike but after reading the RAW it looks like that was a lie. Is there some loophole I'm missing?
bitznarf 12-31-07, 03:48 AM	Elven Ranger Sub level - Elven Hound (I think).
Ferol, Debtor of Torm 12-31-07, 02:43 PM	I don't see anything in the entry for Elven Ranger substitution about Improved Grapple.
bitznarf 12-31-07, 02:58 PM	I'm just going off what I recall from another player, perhaps I am wrong about the Elven Hound getting improved grapple automatically.
Swiftbrook 01-01-08, 03:15 PM	I have an Elven Ranger with Elven ranger substitution levels and an Elven Hound companion. I'm 11th level with the Natural Bond feat. My hound has Improved Grapple but I took Improved Unarmed Strike as it is a prereq for IG. I didn't see any way to take IG without IUS. -Swiftbrook
TWG_Prometheus 01-02-08, 01:12 PM	I've heard people say that creatures with natural weapons don't have to take improved unarmed strike but after reading the RAW it looks like that was a lie. I had heard this before too, but I can't find any justification for it on a second review either. There might be an obscure FAQ ruling, but I couldn't find it. Animal Companions get enough feats to blow one on Improved Unarmed Strike if you really want them to get Improved Grapple.
Ferol, Debtor of Torm 01-02-08, 02:24 PM	I don't know if it means anything but I have seen a few monsters that have Improved Grapple without first having IUS. I was under the impression that unless noted as a bonus feat in the creatures stat block monsters have to use the same rules for feats as characters. Bebilith and Barbed Devil come to mind.
ChainLink 01-04-08, 12:53 AM	I don't know if it means anything but I have seen a few monsters that have Improved Grapple without first having IUS. I was under the impression that unless noted as a bonus feat in the creatures stat block monsters have to use the same rules for feats as characters. Bebilith and Barbed Devil come to mind. I believe that it is specifically noted in the Monster Manual that it is possible for a monster to have a bonus feat for which it does not qualify, just like some classes grant feats regardless of prerequisites.
katrick 01-04-08, 08:15 AM	and that feat is specifically stated under the monsters description. Just like a ranger without 15 dex can still take TWF at 2nd katrick
Jay_Ibero_911 01-07-08, 08:11 PM	It should be noted that in order to get an animal companion to grapple instead of attack normally, the companion needs the Hold trick from complete adventurer, otherwise you would need to push the animal to do so, unless of course it is just using it's natural improved grab ability.
Swiftbrook 01-07-08, 08:15 PM	It should be noted that in order to get an animal companion to grapple instead of attack normally, the companion needs the Hold trick from complete adventurer, otherwise you would need to push the animal to do so, unless of course it is just using it's natural improved grab ability. That trick is now open. -Swiftbrook
Jay_Ibero_911 01-07-08, 08:19 PM	That trick is now open. -Swiftbrook Oh of course, I was merely mentioning it to make it clear that anyone wishing to do this makes sure their animal knows the appropriate trick. The "Train Animal" 2nd level druid spell is very handy, especially at high levels and with an extend rod to make sure your animal knows everything and anything you could possibly want it to know.